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Old 05-15-2009, 02:44 PM
 
341 posts, read 342,703 times
Reputation: 113

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Some of the ignorance in here is crazy. Abortion isn't the result of just "spreading your legs" and "sleeping around"...nor is it always the result of not using protection...half of the time it is..but did you EVER stop to think that SOME of those women have a reason for not using them? Birth control literally sends me into a deep depression and I've had so many nervous breakdowns on them it isn't funny..I would give ANYTHING to be able to be on them and not have problems. I'm also allergic to condoms, etc.

I know SO many women who fell pregnant while on the pill, etc. They did EVERYTHING they could to not get pregnant...heck, I was conceived on the pill! So just because her birth control failed she's a terrible person for not wanting to have a baby? I'm christian and abortion is a terribly sad thing...but you just never know anything until you walk a mile in another womans shoes.

To pretend you do is ignorant...but KARMA sucks....with the judgement that is being passed around..I'm positive some of you will find yourself in a worse situation one day......for now, I'll just say I am a pro-choice Christian that prefers to conserve life, but understands that people make different choices for themselves, and/or mistakes.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:48 PM
 
2,652 posts, read 7,638,586 times
Reputation: 1873
The post above mine is the typical argument for abortion. It's not even about killing a baby, it's about the woman's right to choose not to have the baby. Just a soft way of describing killing a human being. While there may be many cases where an abortion is necessary, most of them aren't justified.

I was having this conversation with a family member recently. It was a friendly discussion, not a rant filled argument like most of this thread is. We were discussion our views on this issue. My three year old daughter, whom my SIL adores, was playing in the room nearby. I asked if she believes in the Constitution, and the unalienable rights it gives to ALL humans. The sister in law said "Of course". I asked her about woman's rights. Does she agree with the unalienable rights the Constitution gives to ALL woman? She said "Well obviously". I then asked her what about my daughter's Constitutional rights? If I wanted to abort her before she was born, why didn't the Constitution grant her the rights that the woman's movement fought for, and what gives me the authority to dictate whether she deserves those rights or not? She had no answer...
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Old 05-18-2009, 05:15 PM
 
13,496 posts, read 13,968,489 times
Reputation: 11119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke9686 View Post
The post above mine is the typical argument for abortion. It's not even about killing a baby, it's about the woman's right to choose not to have the baby. Just a soft way of describing killing a human being. While there may be many cases where an abortion is necessary, most of them aren't justified.

I was having this conversation with a family member recently. It was a friendly discussion, not a rant filled argument like most of this thread is. We were discussion our views on this issue. My three year old daughter, whom my SIL adores, was playing in the room nearby. I asked if she believes in the Constitution, and the unalienable rights it gives to ALL humans. The sister in law said "Of course". I asked her about woman's rights. Does she agree with the unalienable rights the Constitution gives to ALL woman? She said "Well obviously". I then asked her what about my daughter's Constitutional rights? If I wanted to abort her before she was born, why didn't the Constitution grant her the rights that the woman's movement fought for, and what gives me the authority to dictate whether she deserves those rights or not? She had no answer...

the answer: at the time when your daughter was at "risk" of being aborted she did not have any rights. you had the choice to continue your pregnancy and you alone. the child has every right once it takes it's first breath outside the womb.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Mississauga
1,575 posts, read 1,707,310 times
Reputation: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke9686 View Post
The post above mine is the typical argument for abortion. It's not even about killing a baby, it's about the woman's right to choose not to have the baby. Just a soft way of describing killing a human being. While there may be many cases where an abortion is necessary, most of them aren't justified.

I was having this conversation with a family member recently. It was a friendly discussion, not a rant filled argument like most of this thread is. We were discussion our views on this issue. My three year old daughter, whom my SIL adores, was playing in the room nearby. I asked if she believes in the Constitution, and the unalienable rights it gives to ALL humans. The sister in law said "Of course". I asked her about woman's rights. Does she agree with the unalienable rights the Constitution gives to ALL woman? She said "Well obviously". I then asked her what about my daughter's Constitutional rights? If I wanted to abort her before she was born, why didn't the Constitution grant her the rights that the woman's movement fought for, and what gives me the authority to dictate whether she deserves those rights or not? She had no answer...
The baby is an integral part of her while it is inside of her. Who is a better judge as to whether they should have the baby or not. The woman having the baby that is INSIDE of her - or you? Where is the moral justice in an accidental abortion?
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Mississauga
1,575 posts, read 1,707,310 times
Reputation: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc3 View Post
Some of the ignorance in here is crazy. Abortion isn't the result of just "spreading your legs" and "sleeping around"...nor is it always the result of not using protection...half of the time it is..but did you EVER stop to think that SOME of those women have a reason for not using them? Birth control literally sends me into a deep depression and I've had so many nervous breakdowns on them it isn't funny..I would give ANYTHING to be able to be on them and not have problems. I'm also allergic to condoms, etc.

I know SO many women who fell pregnant while on the pill, etc. They did EVERYTHING they could to not get pregnant...heck, I was conceived on the pill! So just because her birth control failed she's a terrible person for not wanting to have a baby? I'm christian and abortion is a terribly sad thing...but you just never know anything until you walk a mile in another womans shoes.

To pretend you do is ignorant...but KARMA sucks....with the judgement that is being passed around..I'm positive some of you will find yourself in a worse situation one day......for now, I'll just say I am a pro-choice Christian that prefers to conserve life, but understands that people make different choices for themselves, and/or mistakes.
I appreciate the humanity in this post. I don't think the choice to abort is an easy one for any woman! If the woman chooses that path, it should be after heavy consultation by the state to ensure this legal abortion is the best avenue for her. If it is, the abortion should be as early as possible or late as necessary. Heaven forbid she should go underground in order to get this done!
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:27 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,181,640 times
Reputation: 7257
Quote:
Originally Posted by mississauga75 View Post
I appreciate the humanity in this post. I don't think the choice to abort is an easy one for any woman! If the woman chooses that path, it should be after heavy consultation by the state to ensure this legal abortion is the best avenue for her. If it is, the abortion should be as early as possible or late as necessary. Heaven forbid she should go underground in order to get this done!
Heavy consultation with the state?

Sorry, I think not.

If I require any other kind of medical procedure I'll not be consulting with my congressman for permission in my particular circumstances. Abortion is no different. Women have the right to autonomy over their bodies. The law reflects this. After the law is set, provided it is a fair and reasonable one, the state should stay the hell out of it. It's none of their business.
I'd be very wary of wanting this "heavy consultation by the state" to become a part of the process if I were you. You might end up with the appalling efforts of Sen Julian McGauran to deal with.

eMJA: Late-term abortion: what can be learned from Royal Women's Hospital v Medical Practitioners Board of Victoria?
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Mississauga
1,575 posts, read 1,707,310 times
Reputation: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
Heavy consultation with the state?

Sorry, I think not.

If I require any other kind of medical procedure I'll not be consulting with my congressman for permission in my particular circumstances. Abortion is no different. Women have the right to autonomy over their bodies. The law reflects this. After the law is set, provided it is a fair and reasonable one, the state should stay the hell out of it. It's none of their business.
I'd be very wary of wanting this "heavy consultation by the state" to become a part of the process if I were you. You might end up with the appalling efforts of Sen Julian McGauran to deal with.

eMJA: Late-term abortion: what can be learned from Royal Women's Hospital v Medical Practitioners Board of Victoria?
Fine I'll amend it to medical experts licenced by the State. Abortion shouldn't be like getting a wisdom tooth out either.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,523,609 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc3 View Post
Birth control literally sends me into a deep depression and I've had so many nervous breakdowns on them it isn't funny..I would give ANYTHING to be able to be on them and not have problems. I'm also allergic to condoms, etc.
.
Sounds like you might need to have a serious discussion with your husband about a vasectomy.

It's amazing how many men there are who are pro-life, but refuse to take the responsibility to get themselves fixed, and instead make their woman take the whole burden on her own shoulders.
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:02 AM
 
2,652 posts, read 7,638,586 times
Reputation: 1873
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
the answer: at the time when your daughter was at "risk" of being aborted she did not have any rights. you had the choice to continue your pregnancy and you alone. the child has every right once it takes it's first breath outside the womb.
This is where the fundamentals of pro-choice and pro-life differ. You don't view the beating heart of a living human being as having Constitutional rights. So in your opinion, what is it? Is it a human, a tree, a non human living organism? In your opinion, is it taking the life of another person, or simply terminating the pregnancy?
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Old 05-19-2009, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
4,271 posts, read 4,982,884 times
Reputation: 3861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke9686 View Post
This is where the fundamentals of pro-choice and pro-life differ. You don't view the beating heart of a living human being as having Constitutional rights. So in your opinion, what is it? Is it a human, a tree, a non human living organism? In your opinion, is it taking the life of another person, or simply terminating the pregnancy?
Plus, how come if someone else kills it, it's murder? For it to be murder it has to be a human being. They can't have it both ways. If it's legal for the mom to kill it, it must be legal for anyone to kill it because it isn't a human being after all.
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