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Old 06-22-2009, 06:19 PM
 
Location: US
3,072 posts, read 3,335,346 times
Reputation: 1620

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I really hope you will rethink what you've written here. Yes, because of grace and mercy those unborn are in the presence and comfort of the One who created them. That does not mean, however, that, because they do end up in a much better place, we can just feel all good about ourselves for sending them there prematurely. To claim that a Christian's stance against abortion is not a "religious" one because those unborn are instantly in the presence of the Lord and we should be happy about it is just wrong. Personally, I have found that God is not at all about religion.

I do not pretend to understand what it is like to suffer the emotional consequences of an abortion. I have only had the experience of standing by and watching the grief. I do understand that I am the recipient of forgiveness and grace. Our church also offers counseling after abortions, and I support it financially and personally. This thread has more than one comment about how horrific the decision is. I make this next statement not out of judgment but as a thought to consider. Choosing an abortion takes a heavy toll for some and not so much for others. I can't help but wonder which decision is harder to bear--carrying a child for nine months and giving it up for adoption to new parents who are joyful about your decision, or living with an abortion. Once again, only each woman can make that decision. Thank you to the Pastor's wife who works so hard to help those suffering with their choice to move on and understand that God loves them (and all us who clearly fall short of the glory of God).

I'm concerned about the legislation Obama promised NOW he would sign into effect once he took office which he, thankfully, has not yet done. Add 13 year old children to the list of adults suffering the emotional toll of an abortion. Yes, I do understand that he promised to do so because he believes that provides choice to the fullest extent of the law as it stands now. To the Pastor's wife, can you imagine trying to counsel a 13, 14, 15, 16 year old who is a baby herself?


Quote:
Originally Posted by trmihall01 View Post
If you believe in God and the bible, then you must also believe that these unborn are now in heaven with Jesus and not suffering from neglect, abuse or unlove here on earth. If this doesn't make a christian think twice about their stance, then it's not a religious one!
Thank you for your kindness!
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,236 posts, read 13,520,511 times
Reputation: 25856
My stance:

I don't like abortion, admittedly, but support the next woman's right to have it. But I believe that the language should be altered to read "Legal Killing of Unborn" (I'm sure that a better-sounding one is out there). Dead things do not grow. If a baby is 'dead' inside the womb then it will be either still-born or miscarried. A pregnant woman who is confident in her choice to terminate the life should have no problem with this legal title.

The reasoning: There was a recent grisly murder here in the Portland suburbs where a woman killed a pregnant, newly-transplanted mother-to-be from another state, and she cut out the 8-month-old from the stomach, which died. She cannot be charged for murder of that baby because the prosecutors cannot prove that the baby breathed life after it was removed (although the murderer could have very well killed it before gutting its mother). This is due to the pro-choice law, whether this baby was 'alive'. This is way past proposterous and absolutely unacceptable.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:24 PM
 
604 posts, read 1,050,556 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by fracturedman View Post
They both chose to have unprotected sex.
So no condom, no pill, no nothing, right? Okay. Well there's still ONE last chance you both have, to avoid getting pregnant, and it's NOT the woman's responsibility. Withdrawal. I wonder how many unwanted pregnancies are due to the guy's lack on control and failure to withdraw when using no other form of contraception? Oh wait, I do know. I checked. It's about 82%. 82% of unwanted pregnancies could have been avoided if the guy had the self control to pull out when he knows they both cbose to have otherwise unprotected sex.
But if I was to have unprotected sex and it resulted in a pregnancy then I would assume the responsabilities of my actions. I would care for the child and provide for it even if the woman did not. Since woman have a choice in the matter of pregnancy I am just say that a man should as well. If he does not want the baby and the woman does then yes she should have to take care of it without him.
No. Not quite. It's not an 'opt out' kind of deal. And if you think abortion is the 'easy way out' for the woman, then why is there 90 pages dealing with the controversy and ethical debate surrounding abortion?

I do not think that anyone should be free from a choice they made and it resulted in a pregnancy. They both did it, now they both need to grow up and raise that child.
So the whole men-can-opt-out-of-responsibility is just theoretical? Well, I guess, I don't know how this might work, but if both parties agree to unprotected sex, and the guys says from the get-go that he wants nothing to do with a baby, and the girl's alright with that, and they both sign some sort of contract, well maybe. But what girl would actually do that? And would it even stand up in court? Don't know. But go for it.
But if you want to allow women the freedom from consequence then a man should have that same option, but since a man cannot make a woman keep the baby or get an abortion there is only one other option. Assume the responsible role and raise the child or have no legal rights and not pay to support the child.

Or do we want to again blame the man alone for the pregnancy....after all its his sperm right? the woman did nothing but lay there. If you think this way you need help...
Maybe she grabbed you and held you so tight that you couldn't withdraw. Maybe.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:35 PM
 
1,779 posts, read 2,037,515 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Maybe she grabbed you and held you so tight that you couldn't withdraw. Maybe.
FYI: my stance on this topic has changed a bit...there is another thread that I am on...please do yourself a favor and read it. This thread is dead to me...I am only going to post in the other threat from now on...So do me and you a favor and join us in the other thread.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:45 PM
 
13,496 posts, read 13,971,597 times
Reputation: 11119
withdraw? as a form of birth control...that is a sure way to get pregnant.
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:23 AM
 
Location: memphis tn
530 posts, read 568,292 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolac View Post
I really hope you will rethink what you've written here. Yes, because of grace and mercy those unborn are in the presence and comfort of the One who created them. That does not mean, however, that, because they do end up in a much better place, we can just feel all good about ourselves for sending them there prematurely. To claim that a Christian's stance against abortion is not a "religious" one because those unborn are instantly in the presence of the Lord and we should be happy about it is just wrong. Personally, I have found that God is not at all about religion.

I do not pretend to understand what it is like to suffer the emotional consequences of an abortion. I have only had the experience of standing by and watching the grief. I do understand that I am the recipient of forgiveness and grace. Our church also offers counseling after abortions, and I support it financially and personally. This thread has more than one comment about how horrific the decision is. I make this next statement not out of judgment but as a thought to consider. Choosing an abortion takes a heavy toll for some and not so much for others. I can't help but wonder which decision is harder to bear--carrying a child for nine months and giving it up for adoption to new parents who are joyful about your decision, or living with an abortion. Once again, only each woman can make that decision. Thank you to the Pastor's wife who works so hard to help those suffering with their choice to move on and understand that God loves them (and all us who clearly fall short of the glory of God).

I'm concerned about the legislation Obama promised NOW he would sign into effect once he took office which he, thankfully, has not yet done. Add 13 year old children to the list of adults suffering the emotional toll of an abortion. Yes, I do understand that he promised to do so because he believes that provides choice to the fullest extent of the law as it stands now. To the Pastor's wife, can you imagine trying to counsel a 13, 14, 15, 16 year old who is a baby herself?
When you take one quote out of context and read it to fit what you want, then i guess it does. I personally am agnostic, i have no issue with abortion, a woman's body and reasoning for an abortion is none of my or anyone elses concern. My problem is when we start letting the government legislate individual rights. Thats a long dark road with many monsters we don't want to travel down. Also do you not believe these fetus' if they have souls, go to heaven? Then if so, why is that so bad?
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Famously Corrupt Illinois
113 posts, read 114,036 times
Reputation: 84
My view-
Kill the problem at its root, invest in birth control education. Once a woman told me "10 seconds to put on a condom can potentially save you 18 years of responsibility." We clearly need to be teaching teenagers and unwed adults this philosophy, abstinence is only effective when it is practiced (and lets be honest, it is natural to desire sex whether there is a stable relationship or not). Birth control offers a back-up if consenting partners choose to engage in sexual activities. My advice to pro lifers is to drop the religion and "babykilling" in the argument and offer ways to minimize the usage of the procedure. If unwanted pregancies still occur, the adoption system should always be considered before abortion. Abortion may be morally selfish and wrong, but it doesn't look like Roe Vs. Wade will be overturned in the foreseebale future. Thus, minimizing the problem by these means is a more intelligent and realistic action to do than attempting to overturn a Supreme Court Ruling that has survived over 35 years of pro-lifer arguments. Just a thought.

Last edited by "Progressive" Liberal; 06-23-2009 at 12:23 PM..
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,236 posts, read 13,520,511 times
Reputation: 25856
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Progressive" Liberal View Post
My view-
Kill the problem at its root, invest in birth control education. Once a woman told me "10 seconds to put on a condom can potentially save you 18 years of responsibility." We clearly need to be teaching teenagers and unwed adults this philosophy, abstinence is only effective when it is practiced (and lets be honest, it is natural to desire sex whether their is a stable relationship or not
Well, how much education do you expect? Sex education in schools have progressed a lot since the 80's, and in fact, today so many schools have stuck their noses so far deep into sex education that they even hand out condoms (which would make for another heated topic). Teenagers know exactly where babies come from, what they should do ~ they just don't care.
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:20 PM
 
1,047 posts, read 2,045,334 times
Reputation: 412
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
withdraw? as a form of birth control...that is a sure way to get pregnant.
I made a withdrawal at the bank the other day. Should I worry about getting pregnant?

I hope I can figure out who did it.
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:24 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 2,640,118 times
Reputation: 581
Please post your stance .

It has been scientifically proven that a complete Human Being starts at conception when 26 chromosomes from the male and 26 from the female , come together. The persons makeup is then set for a lifetime. In the 1980's , 80 of the worlds foremost Scientists and Medical Doctors testified to this fact in front of Congress. Another documented fact, is that 95% of ALL abortions are the direct result of sexual hedonism gone (further) wrong. Therefore, abortion is the devastating murder of a developing American human being by having its physical body ripped to pieces then sucked into a nearby sink while 'Mom' ,who values liberty over life, sits by patiently reading the latest issue of Cosmopolitan Magazine on how to gain greater pleasure from a copulation with the opposite sex.

Abortion is Infanticide because it is a deliberate action in the taking of a developing Person....a person who is the most defenseless in society and who has no say in what is happening to him/her . This may not be politically correct, but those are the facts and my take. And it is an occurance amounting to 4,000 times daily in America because sexual immorality is the Nations favorite pastime. This, in addition to other sexual immorality and perversion, will lead to the utter ruin of the United States of America because its people place high value on Hedonism and Narcissism.
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