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Old 03-20-2009, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 23,255,542 times
Reputation: 4895

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Property taxes are unfair and should be abolished on all but income producing properties. That solves the problem from the start. Seperation of church and state must be maintained, so taxing them in any way is illegal. Their members pay taxes so why should they be double or triple taxed? Once social security and medicare break down, only churches and charities will be left.
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:26 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,486,190 times
Reputation: 3869
It is obvious that there is an incredible amount of pure ignorance here, regarding churches, and what they do & don't pay.

- Church staff (including pastors/priests) are NOT tax exempt. Every pastor pays income tax just like everybody else. Gift income is included and fully taxable.

- Churches pay for all their utilities and heat, and property maintenance. And while this is not the case in all cities, many charge churches "commercial rate" for these things. In addition, churches pay commercial rate on telephone lines, etc.

- Regarding "taxable income", any church can easily "zero out" it's income at the close of each year. And many do anyway.

- Trying to force churches to pay property tax will create a huge problem. Any time a value assessment would be done, it would be challenged - and rightly so. There's no way to fairly assess the value of a church property, because it could be rightly argued that the property/building is of little or no use commercially. For instance, we have a church right down the street from my office that closed 2 years. It's actually a very nice building, and has a small gym. They've been trying to sell it for about $150,000 and absolutely cannot move it. So how would you assess that property?

- Forcing churches to pay property taxes would also bring a legal battle regarding forcing ALL non-profits to pay property taxes. It is inevitable. And eventually if churches were forced to pay property taxes, schools and colleges would be forced to do so as well.


I think we need to consider some facts before really speaking out on this issue of taxing churches.
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Old 03-20-2009, 07:06 PM
 
485 posts, read 904,101 times
Reputation: 100
Thumbs up lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean2026 View Post
Jack you aren' t intelligent enough to understand that no matter which side you take in a debate , you make the other look good. How can someone grow up in this country and not take the time to learn our language? There are adult education classes- find one!

Greatday you don't understand Separation of Church and State. How does making them pay tax like everyone else violate this clause ( this I have to see!)?
Talk about smart,The least you could have done was put a diffrent picture of the seven dwarfs on your profile,and you got the nerve to start on me?You got to be smarter than to put that pic on there?Is it the old version of the guy from the mad magazine or one of snow whites little guy's?tell us!THIS GUY HAS A GREAT SENCE OF HUMOR,I am sorry about all i didnt realize you was a prankster till i looked at you bio,KUDOS,I WISH I COULD HAVE GOT THAT PIC FIRST,[funny]can i use it when your done?
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Old 03-20-2009, 08:01 PM
 
472 posts, read 628,307 times
Reputation: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
It is obvious that there is an incredible amount of pure ignorance here, regarding churches, and what they do & don't pay.

- Church staff (including pastors/priests) are NOT tax exempt. Every pastor pays income tax just like everybody else. Gift income is included and fully taxable.

- Churches pay for all their utilities and heat, and property maintenance. And while this is not the case in all cities, many charge churches "commercial rate" for these things. In addition, churches pay commercial rate on telephone lines, etc.

- Regarding "taxable income", any church can easily "zero out" it's income at the close of each year. And many do anyway.

- Trying to force churches to pay property tax will create a huge problem. Any time a value assessment would be done, it would be challenged - and rightly so. There's no way to fairly assess the value of a church property, because it could be rightly argued that the property/building is of little or no use commercially. For instance, we have a church right down the street from my office that closed 2 years. It's actually a very nice building, and has a small gym. They've been trying to sell it for about $150,000 and absolutely cannot move it. So how would you assess that property?

- Forcing churches to pay property taxes would also bring a legal battle regarding forcing ALL non-profits to pay property taxes. It is inevitable. And eventually if churches were forced to pay property taxes, schools and colleges would be forced to do so as well.


I think we need to consider some facts before really speaking out on this issue of taxing churches.
As the one who wrote the checks for the Church I attend, I can certainly agree with all the above.

Also, one should consider the amount of business the Churches generate in any community. Building maintenance, utilities, purchases from local businesses for provision of help for any needy person, and yes, snow removal, and salaries paid, all add up to a not insignificant amount.

The only problem I see with the tax exemption is that the IRS shoul more closely monitor the political activity engaged in by some churches.
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:25 PM
 
485 posts, read 904,101 times
Reputation: 100
Default yes yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by k.smith904 View Post
It won't change because its a touchy subject. The U.S. is still a Christian nation and you better believe people will raise hell if the government decides to start "taxing Jesus."
You said what i was thinking,thank you!Taxing jesus is the best and only way of saying it!It would not get my vote or any votes from anyone i know.A athiast would only do so.
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Old 03-21-2009, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,285 posts, read 49,863,906 times
Reputation: 67159
There are plenty of moral, upstanding people who believe in god who have little or no regard for your Jesus. So, no...not only an atheist would do so.
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:02 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,486,190 times
Reputation: 3869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedsnake View Post
The only problem I see with the tax exemption is that the IRS shoul more closely monitor the political activity engaged in by some churches.
I certainly agree with that.

I'd venture a guess that the vast, vast majority of church are really not political at all. But there are those few. And they're not necessarily Republican leaning or Democrat leaning. But when you have pastors/priests or other church leaders TELLING members who they MUST vote for, that might be crossing the line.
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Old 03-21-2009, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,858 posts, read 43,597,332 times
Reputation: 58603
Default !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
It is obvious that there is an incredible amount of pure ignorance here, regarding churches, and what they do & don't pay.

- Church staff (including pastors/priests) are NOT tax exempt. Every pastor pays income tax just like everybody else. Gift income is included and fully taxable.

- Churches pay for all their utilities and heat, and property maintenance. And while this is not the case in all cities, many charge churches "commercial rate" for these things. In addition, churches pay commercial rate on telephone lines, etc.

- Regarding "taxable income", any church can easily "zero out" it's income at the close of each year. And many do anyway.

- Trying to force churches to pay property tax will create a huge problem. Any time a value assessment would be done, it would be challenged - and rightly so. There's no way to fairly assess the value of a church property, because it could be rightly argued that the property/building is of little or no use commercially. For instance, we have a church right down the street from my office that closed 2 years. It's actually a very nice building, and has a small gym. They've been trying to sell it for about $150,000 and absolutely cannot move it. So how would you assess that property?

- Forcing churches to pay property taxes would also bring a legal battle regarding forcing ALL non-profits to pay property taxes. It is inevitable. And eventually if churches were forced to pay property taxes, schools and colleges would be forced to do so as well.


I think we need to consider some facts before really speaking out on this issue of taxing churches.
What a great post!

So many times we are quick to make calls without 1) knowing all the facts and 2) thinking out the extending consequences.

I personally have a problem with those multi-million dollar ministries that seem to think they have no responsibility to pay taxes.....but it is worth waiting for them to be dealt with by God....in order not to rob the smaller community churches who do so much for so many without any profit.
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Old 03-23-2009, 12:54 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,148 posts, read 9,223,353 times
Reputation: 9016
Default Why are YOU paying a tax on your land?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean2026 View Post
I wondered why do Churches get a free ride -
The property tax is an ad valorem tax on the privilege to hold land and buildings with qualified ownership.

There is no property tax levied on private property absolutely owned by individuals.

Check your own state constitution for proof.

Only estate (real and personal property) are subject to tax.
No constitution delegates the power to tax private property.
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:19 AM
 
812 posts, read 2,080,633 times
Reputation: 467
this is so wrong. many churches do nothing for the community and it's a front. many churches are only incestuous clubs for the member's benefits to have rub elbows with eachother and espouse their (political) beliefs hoping to garner more members in order to even have greater leverage outside thier 'community'. it is little different than a party. yes, religious organizations and churches are a political machine in thier own way. they should have to pay! this is what they call pulling the wool over society's eyes.

it's no different than someone claiming power by claiming a god.
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