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Old 03-23-2009, 07:26 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,486,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaana View Post
this is so wrong. many churches do nothing for the community and it's a front. many churches are only incestuous clubs for the member's benefits to have rub elbows with eachother and espouse their (political) beliefs hoping to garner more members in order to even have greater leverage outside thier 'community'. it is little different than a party. yes, religious organizations and churches are a political machine in thier own way. they should have to pay! this is what they call pulling the wool over society's eyes.

it's no different than someone claiming power by claiming a god.
You obviously know nothing about how churches actually work, what they do and don't do politically, and what they do actually pay for.
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Old 03-23-2009, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,126 posts, read 25,821,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
I certainly agree with that.

I'd venture a guess that the vast, vast majority of church are really not political at all. But there are those few. And they're not necessarily Republican leaning or Democrat leaning. But when you have pastors/priests or other church leaders TELLING members who they MUST vote for, that might be crossing the line.
The church down the street from where I work was taking 'donations' of $10 to write 'YES ON PROP 8' and 'PROTECT MARRIAGE' on peoples cars.... If this isn't getting involved in politics I don't know what is.
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Old 03-23-2009, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Rockport Texas from El Paso
2,601 posts, read 7,315,380 times
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Some churches do community work - some of it is substantial some just religious and some don't do anything. What in effect we are allowing is them to take a free ride and decide what is fair to do.


If the churches paid their fair share -everyone would have more money to spend and perhaps some of them would do community work or charity.

Perhaps if churches had to pay but received some sort of deduction for what they provide, that would make for a more equitable system.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:05 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,486,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
The church down the street from where I work was taking 'donations' of $10 to write 'YES ON PROP 8' and 'PROTECT MARRIAGE' on peoples cars.... If this isn't getting involved in politics I don't know what is.
Weird.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:13 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,486,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean2026 View Post
Some churches do community work - some of it is substantial some just religious and some don't do anything. What in effect we are allowing is them to take a free ride and decide what is fair to do.


If the churches paid their fair share -everyone would have more money to spend and perhaps some of them would do community work or charity.

Perhaps if churches had to pay but received some sort of deduction for what they provide, that would make for a more equitable system.
Actually, this is not true. The amount of property tax realized from all the churches in any given community would not be substantial.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Weird.
Tell me about it.
And I'm in 'ultra liberal' California.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:24 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,486,190 times
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Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
Tell me about it.
And I'm in 'ultra liberal' California.
Yeah.

You know, at issue is really ALL non-profits in America. Unfortunately, the people who have an axe to grind with churches, cannot see that.

If this issue were to be pressed, it would unleash some nasty stuff. For instance, the non-profit status of all colleges and schools would be challenged, and probably lost (if churches lose theirs). Any charitable deductions would probably lose their deduction status.

I think it would be very interesting to have this whole "churches tax exempt status" challenged legally. I don't think the people who are pushing for it have any idea how it would actually turn out.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:52 PM
 
Location: The 719
13,712 posts, read 21,527,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
It is obvious that there is an incredible amount of pure ignorance here, regarding churches, and what they do & don't pay...
Thanks for making this thread somehow "Great Debates" worthy.

Now I see posters in here complaining about the churches tax exempt status AND their presence in politics. What kind of political clout do you think churches would obtain if they DID start paying taxes?

If I start paying you money, I own you! Be careful what you pray-er wish for!
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:31 PM
 
3,460 posts, read 4,796,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
If we're going to yank the tax-free status of churches, we also have to yank the tax-free status of ALL non-profits. This includes schools and colleges.

Let's see how that one flies!
I'd like to see the tax free status of schools, churches, AND hospitals yanked.

The college eats up my local property taxes, but they don't give me a local discount on tuition. They keep raising rates to build new sports stadiums and fund pet projects. How does that help to educate our children?

The hospital doesn't give me a local discount either. Although they're non-profit, they've raised rates to the point where the community can't afford to go to the doctor. I don't need a hospital with mahogany trim. I need medical care I can afford.

Why should a Christian have to subsidize a mosque that advocates the killing of Christians? What do Mormon temples do for a community, and why should I be forced to subsidize them?

If the purpose of a non-profit corporation such as a church or hospital is to provide services to the community, a property tax would discourage them from spending money on marble floors instead of following their charter.
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Old 03-23-2009, 06:37 PM
 
5,273 posts, read 11,927,870 times
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I am not opposed to churches getting a break on property taxes.

However, I am opposed to them getting these breaks when they become businesses (like day care, private schools...) or becoming a political activists.

The function of the church is two-fold. First, to save people's souls. Second, to offer comfort and aid to those in need. Now, I realize they have salaries to pay, buildings to maintain and missionaries to support- but those all work toward their intent of religion.

When a church steps outside those boundaries, I think they cease to be a true church and become something else- and should be taxed accordingly.
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