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Old 04-06-2009, 11:49 PM
 
24,753 posts, read 26,824,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
I don't want Eeeee2985 to feel like we're ganging up on him/her. I just can't believe some of the stuff that person is preaching. Please lets have a discussions without insulting each others beliefs.
Actually, I thought Eeeee2985's post on trying to reach people at the soul level was one of the most intelligent posts I've seen from a religious person.

I agree it was a little bit snarky about atheists/agnostics, but still painted an accurate descrption of that worldview.
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:34 AM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,190,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
No, it isn't God's punishment. But it is often a natural consequence of having indiscriminate sex.

I'm not saying people shouldn't use condoms. I don't agree with the Catholic Church's exteme position.

However, I do think birth control has made people much less careful about who they go to bed with.

I know I used to be that way (as in...hey as long as no one gets pregnant or gets a disease, everything's a-ok!!). It took me a while to learn....but I found out there's no condom to protect against a broken heart...which is what lots of indiscriminate sex eventually brings.

There is more birth control than ever today....yet we have a 40% out of wedlock birth rate and a very high % of unplanned pregnancies in the US. 40 years ago, when modern birth control was less widely available, the out of wedlock birth rate was much lower, and people were more careful about who they slept with.
Ah no, 40 years ago there were more poor woman having back yard abortions, there were very hushed and expensive "procedures" for rich woman, more adoptions and children ending up in state care and a whole lot more "fudging" of marriage dates and the birth dates of first born children.
ALL of which has probably contributed to the out of control divorce rate we see today.

And I dispute your claim that lots of indiscriminate sex eventually brings a broken heart. It may have for you, it is unreasonable to assume that is the case for others.

Basically all I'm reading here is do as I say not as I did because now I've had an epiphany and so I know what I'm talking about. WHICH I must say sounds an awful lot like the Pope.

Don't use condoms, use abstinence because I do and it's worked so well.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:53 AM
 
1,330 posts, read 1,043,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
Ah no, 40 years ago there were more poor woman having back yard abortions, there were very hushed and expensive "procedures" for rich woman, more adoptions and children ending up in state care and a whole lot more "fudging" of marriage dates and the birth dates of first born children.
ALL of which has probably contributed to the out of control divorce rate we see today.

And I dispute your claim that lots of indiscriminate sex eventually brings a broken heart. It may have for you, it is unreasonable to assume that is the case for others.

Basically all I'm reading here is do as I say not as I did because now I've had an epiphany and so I know what I'm talking about. WHICH I must say sounds an awful lot like the Pope.

Don't use condoms, use abstinence because I do and it's worked so well.
Condoms have worked so well in Africa. That's why we still have this alleged AIDS epidemic.

Liberal solution: Do the same failed action using other people's money for 25 years straight. And when you see the problem is getting worse, redouble your efforts to do even more of the failed action and spend even more of other people's money.

Why are these people in charge of anything?
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:56 AM
 
1,330 posts, read 1,043,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Actually, I thought Eeeee2985's post on trying to reach people at the soul level was one of the most intelligent posts I've seen from a religious person.

I agree it was a little bit snarky about atheists/agnostics, but still painted an accurate descrption of that worldview.
Thanks. Common sense isn't often rewarded in these pages. Usually it's the shouters who prevail as they utter the same wrong ideas in unison.
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Old 04-07-2009, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,773,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
Condoms have worked so well in Africa. That's why we still have this alleged AIDS epidemic.

Liberal solution: Do the same failed action using other people's money for 25 years straight. And when you see the problem is getting worse, redouble your efforts to do even more of the failed action and spend even more of other people's money.

Why are these people in charge of anything?
This isn't a liberal/conservative issue. This is a public health issue and should be about saving lives....not about politics or morals.

We need to teach them that ideally they shouldn't have sex at all (no one with AIDS should), but that if they have to, they need to use the condoms. We ALSO need to look at the AIDS being spread by breastfeeding and provide mothers with baby formula.
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:07 PM
 
1,330 posts, read 1,043,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
This isn't a liberal/conservative issue. This is a public health issue and should be about saving lives....not about politics or morals.

We need to teach them that ideally they shouldn't have sex at all (no one with AIDS should), but that if they have to, they need to use the condoms. We ALSO need to look at the AIDS being spread by breastfeeding and provide mothers with baby formula.
That's as idiotic as me telling my sixteen year old "Don't drive drunk, but if you do, the keys are on my dresser".

Again, THEY ALREADY HAVE CONDOMS. They either don't work or they aren't using them. This is what has been done for 25 years. Time to change what doesn't work.
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Old 04-07-2009, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,773,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
That's as idiotic as me telling my sixteen year old "Don't drive drunk, but if you do, the keys are on my dresser".
No. It's more like telling your 16 year old "don't drink, but if you do, don't drive."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
Again, THEY ALREADY HAVE CONDOMS. They either don't work or they aren't using them. This is what has been done for 25 years. Time to change what doesn't work.
We need to provide instruction on the importance of using the condoms and make sure they know how to use them (I don't know how anyone wouldn't, but maybe they don't).
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:54 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,190,117 times
Reputation: 7257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
Condoms have worked so well in Africa. That's why we still have this alleged AIDS epidemic.

Liberal solution: Do the same failed action using other people's money for 25 years straight. And when you see the problem is getting worse, redouble your efforts to do even more of the failed action and spend even more of other people's money.

Why are these people in charge of anything?
I wish you'd make up your mind. We're either talking about an AIDS epidemic or we're not. (then again you do seem to have a problem with truth.)

Catholic solution: Do the same failed action using other people's money for hundreds of years and when you see the problem is getting worse send out a dodgy old man who is supposedly celibate to council and decree to those who are not, and try to drum up business. HOW LONG will it take for the Catholic church hierachy to wake up that people are not going to stop having sex OR feel the need to marry in order to do so OR consider the Pope's thoughts on the matter worth following? AND when you see the problem getting worse redouble your efforts to do even more of the failed action and spend even more of other people's money.

WHY are these people in charge of anything?
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:57 PM
 
44,606 posts, read 43,151,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound View Post
I heard recently that the Pope has said the condoms won't do much to help with the AIDS problem in Africa. Is this guy delusional. I'm don't want to offend people here but comments like this absolutely floor me.

Africa is one the hardest hit countries in the world dealing with AIDS and this "guy" comes out and says this.

I know Catholics don't believe in birth control, but at the risk of peoples lives. Again I'm speechless.

What could possibly be the reasoning behind this. Blind allegiance to "scripture".

At what expense. People dying needlessly? Is following the tenets that important. One could take a cynical look at say that the catholic church want members so badly that they want all of the unborn children to become catholic.

I hate to tell ya this but, if they're dying of AIDS you want have anymore Catholics.


On Africa trip, pope says condoms won't solve AIDS (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090317/ap_on_re_af/af_pope_africa - broken link)
As a Catholic, I am familiar with the teachings on birth control. Abstinence is on of the Catholic Church's teachings. My view is that if you don't want to get AIDS or an unwanted pregnancy, don't have sex. I'm 22(I will be 23 in 21 days) and I have never had sexual intercourse with anyone(I have never had a girlfriend).
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:51 PM
 
1,330 posts, read 1,043,622 times
Reputation: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
I wish you'd make up your mind. We're either talking about an AIDS epidemic or we're not. (then again you do seem to have a problem with truth.)

Catholic solution: Do the same failed action using other people's money for hundreds of years and when you see the problem is getting worse send out a dodgy old man who is supposedly celibate to council and decree to those who are not, and try to drum up business. HOW LONG will it take for the Catholic church hierachy to wake up that people are not going to stop having sex OR feel the need to marry in order to do so OR consider the Pope's thoughts on the matter worth following? AND when you see the problem getting worse redouble your efforts to do even more of the failed action and spend even more of other people's money.

WHY are these people in charge of anything?
Why are the atheist folks so bitter? Is it because their godless methods have failed Africa for 25 years? I know, I know. Let's blame religion.
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