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Old 03-24-2009, 07:59 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,490,175 times
Reputation: 1846

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Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
It may not be frequent, but it's certainly more common than in other types of cases. I should have used the words "relatively frequently."

I'm with you on this one...I think no capital punishment should be permitted. Partly because of the innocence possibility and also because of the expenses.

Well, I .............never thought this would happen.
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
339 posts, read 1,057,820 times
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I'll start by saying that unlike many people on this forum, I'm outside the US and all the countries I've lived in have no death penalty. So I don't want to start commenting on cases/laws/judicial processes that are particular to the US or the costs of housing inmates vs. executing, etc, because my knowledge in that area is lacking.

I'm against it. I don't argue against it on the basis that everyone deserves to live, no matter what they have done. Mine's more about the potential harm done to a few innocent people.

If you execute 99 guilty people and 1 innocent person, the justice system has failed. There is no such thing as a perfect justice system, nor will there ever be. Therefore, you can't have a death penalty because there is no going back for that one innocent person. If you are for the death penalty, you must believe strongly in the judicial system of your country, and accept the trade-off that while many guilty people are punished, a few innocent people will die.

If you look at it from the POV of someone who is the citizen of a country where there is not such a strong rule of law and fair justice system as the US, you might have a different take on things. For example, China leads the world in executing its citizens, something like four times the rate as the US (and that's just the officially reported stats - it is surely a much higher number). There are many examples of people basically being 'taken out the back' and dealt a bullet to the head, for a number of various 'crimes' they may or may not have committed. I think if that was the system you lived under, you may have quite a different opinion of the death penalty! You must consider that your support of the death penalty may actually hinge on your faith in the strength and fairness of your legal system and that it could be quite a different matter if that faith was absent. It's very handy to be able to say 'well, I support it but only if the person is 100% guilty', but as we know, this is not always possible and therefore it can't be a black and white issue. There are many subtle shades of grey.

I also believe punishing killing with state-sanctioned killing is hypocritical and sends out a very mixed message. Perhaps part of the reason it is shown not to act as a deterrent?

Now, when we are talking about countries that execute people for much lesser crimes than murder i.e. Singapore hanging drug smugglers, there is no excuse for that. That is completely barbaric and uncivilised.
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,763,873 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
Well, I .............never thought this would happen.
You didn't convince me. LOL. If you'll notice, my very first post on this thread stated that I am against the death penalty.

Have we disagreed on other topics before on this forum? Because I don't remember your name.
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:18 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,490,175 times
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Yes, we have. I just haven't posted. So, of course you wouldn't remember me. I read more than I post.
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:38 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,516,394 times
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Originally Posted by hkgal
Quote:
If you execute 99 guilty people and 1 innocent person, the justice system has failed. There is no such thing as a perfect justice system, nor will there ever be. Therefore, you can't have a death penalty because there is no going back for that one innocent person. If you are for the death penalty, you must believe strongly in the judicial system of your country, and accept the trade-off that while many guilty people are punished, a few innocent people will die.
Like you I'm not from the US, I'm from the Netherlands.
And like you I don't believe that we will ever have a perfect justice system, but unlike you I'm all for the death penalty when it comes to serial killers, serial rapists and serial paedophiles.
The reason I want these people dead is because of the fact that we can’t change what they are, which is a serial predator.
What makes matters worse with serial predators is that every victim they make is a potential serial predator.
I view serial predators the same way as a virus, if you don’t exterminate them at ground 0 they’ll only multiply and I’m sure that nobody wants that to happen.

The problem with the Dutch justice system is that even prisoners in psych wards who’ve been treated for years eventually get a weekend leave, because the majority of the Dutch people believe that every prisoner should have a chance to return to society. Normally I agree with this, but when it comes to serial predators I strongly disagree.
Most psych prisoners (after years of counselling) are transferred to a minimal security prison because the psychiatrists believe them to be cured. Unfortunately some psych prisoners easily escape from these minimal security prisons or during their weekend leave.
And a few of them even manage to kill & rape even when they’re on the run from the police.
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:47 AM
 
Location: DFW - Coppell / Las Colinas
29,920 posts, read 34,526,470 times
Reputation: 35919
I am for the death penalty and being in TX I believe we do it the right way. In the mid 90's I had a friend who had a very bad guy come in their home and slaughtered his 9 yo daughter and her 7 yo friend who was at the house. This was a pretty evil guy and the state executed him around 2003.

This kind of person does not deserve to be on this planet.
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:03 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,490,175 times
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David Spence
Ruben Cantu
Carlos Deluna
Gary Graham
Cameron Willingham

Yes, I can see Texas does it right.
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,763,873 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
David Spence
Ruben Cantu
Carlos Deluna
Gary Graham
Cameron Willingham

Yes, I can see Texas does it right.
I'm familiar with the Cantu case and I find it absolutely dispicable. I'm not familiar with any of the others.
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:14 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,457,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
David Spence
Here's part of what I just read regarding Spence's conviction:

Quote:
Spence was tried and convicted by two separate juries in connection with what were known as the "Lake Waco Murders." The three teenage victims, Kenneth Franks, Jill Montgomery and Raylene Rice, were brutally stabbed to death at a Waco, Texas, park in July, 1982. The two girls had also been sexually assaulted.

On its face, the state's evidence against Spence seems overwhelming. It included, most importantly, testimony from two of Spence's co-defendants, who pleaded guilty to two of the murders in exchange for life sentences, and testimony from a forensic odontologist who said that bite marks inflicted on the two girls could have only come from Spence. The state also presented seven jailhouse informants who claimed they heard Spence talk about or confess to the murders, and a friend of Spence who said he'd told her that he and "some friends" had raped some "chicks" at Lake Waco.
It does seem like rather overwhelming evidence, does it not? I know there is more to the story - and frankly, it bothers me that a case where there was any question still led to a man's execution - but part of what gets me is that the guy was convicted by two separate juries.
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:16 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,490,175 times
Reputation: 1846
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
I'm familiar with the Cantu case and I find it absolutely dispicable. I'm not familiar with any of the others.

All of them have been executed already in Texas.
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