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Being a Texan myself, I find it even more repugnant.
I will say, to those of you who look down on TX's use of the death penalty, we are #4 in the rate of executions based on population and #16-18 (not sure exactly) in the rate of death sentences based on population.
We may be #1 in number, which disgusts me, but I don't think that's a fair way to look at it.
the death penalty is in place more so to save tax money than actually try to prevent heinous crimes, in my opinion. That said, its wrong, and my blood is redder than Rush Limbaugh's.
It cost more to put someone to death than it does to keep them in prison for life.. It has nothing to do with cost.
Never understood California & the death penelty. Their good citizens keep sending people to death row but the state is not following their wishes and executing as the juries have directed. They now have the largest death row in the US.
David Spence
Ruben Cantu
Carlos Deluna
Gary Graham
Cameron Willingham
Yes, I can see Texas does it right.
I googled these names and found nothing that proved they were innocent....found a lot of he said she said stuff. Can you provide any proof they were innocent.
Regardless of whether those people were innocent or not, I guarantee that there has been at least one truly innocent person executed in the U.S. at some point in recent times. I'm not 100% sure of a name but if there are doubts as to so many, at least one has to be for real.
Even if you support the death penalty in theory (which I do not as two wrongs do not make a right), how could anyone possibly argue that any risk at all is worth it? Especially given that it would be cheaper to just lock them up and throw away the key?
Our justice system will never be perfect. I understand that there would be innocent people (and are already) who are locked up forever as well. But I find that morally preferable to killing them and I think most of you would agree. And, there would at least be far more time to prove their innocence and release them. I'm certainly not suggesting that 20-30 years in prison is something that any innocent person should suffer, but it's better to let them out at some point than never.
Given that the death penalty does not serve as a deterrent, is the revenge really worth all this?
Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 03-24-2009 at 05:01 PM..
For me it's not about cost or the law of averages. It's about justice. I do believe that there has to be solid evidence and absolutely no room for doubt when handing down sentencing. Thorough investigation with overwhelming evidence. Once sentence is handed down you should be executed within 24 hours. That'll cut down on costs. A 50 cent bullet to the heart is a lot cheaper than endless appeals, and housing someone in prison for life. For most of them, compared to what they did to their victims, that bullet to the heart is getting off easy. What purpose would be served for keeping someone like John Wayne Gacy or Henry Lee Lucas alive? I think Henry is still around. His candle should have been blown out a long time ago.
In the case of David Spence: The pubic hairs were not his. The teeth marks were not his. There is no physical evidence linking him to the crime. Testimonies were recanted. Lots of he said/she said.
It’s called the Lake Waco Murders. Vic Feasell (sp?) maintains a site with documents. In fact, you should buy the book and you can find psychics that helped solved the crime. Rightoooo. Even though they were found to be wrong consistently. In fact, play real close attention to Vic Fea.. You want to know everything there is to know about that man.
Ruben Cantu: No physical evidence and again recanting.
Carlos Deluna: Hernandez confessed. No physical evidence linking him to the crime.
Gary Graham: No physical evidence. One eyewitness testimony. All other eyewitness testimonies stated otherwise.
Cameron Willingham http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/chi-0412090169dec09,0,4934450.story
It’s cute. My contribution.
I just got off work and I’m not going to hunt down stuff. I hope that doesn’t come off rude. Its not my intention. The thing of it is, is that cj in an adversarial system has problems all over the place. Withholding evidence, suppressing evidence and (for the love of all that is holy) the Reid Interrogation Method has vast problems associated with it. When you know going in that 90% of all cases are pled out and that doesn’t mean that the offender is guilty……you have problems. The STATE wins. This is huge. HUGE.
Beyond a reasonable doubt. It is everything. The judge is not going to hand you any of the books that are available on the fallacies of eye witness testimonies. They aren’t going to hand you the stats of the 90% of cases that constitute wins and they sure aren’t going to hand you the data that states that cops lie on the stand. They aren’t going to tell you the fallacies in the Reid Interrogation Method. Shucks, they aren’t going to tell you to research the past cases where you can pin point public defenders and withheld evidence: at the time of the trial. On the latter you won’t see because its…….withheld. They are not going to tell you about the number of wrongly convicted people based on those incarcerated who claim to have heard confessions. YOU should have already known that going in if your on the jury. It's always someone elses job.
And last but not least. Victim rights. You know, when the state picks up your case they stand in your place. Therefore, it does nothing if not but more damage.
I hope that did not come off to harsh. I'm just a little bitter.
Last edited by Pandamonium; 03-24-2009 at 09:18 PM..
I believe when we consider the issue of the death penalty, the question must be extended from 'do you support the death penalty' to 'do you support the death penalty in your country/state/jurisdiction?'
This is because the whole issue hinges on the fairness, transparency and accountability of a judicial system, which ultimately leads to the likelihood of an innocent person being executed.
For me, if you support it in your local area/state/country, you are entitled to. However, you must be willing to accept the fact that someone innocent will or has already been put to death. You must be able to come to terms with this fact. Some people are willing to accept this as an inevitable trade off, while others are not.
For those based in the US who agree that their state should use the death penalty, could you also say the same for places where the justice system is dubious at best (say, for example, China). What if one of your fellow countrymen was to be at the mercy of such a system - would you still support that countries right to execute them? I think these are questions we must consider for they can reveal the multi-faceted nature of the issue, and show that it's difficult to be universally for or against it in all circumstances.
Last edited by hkgal; 03-24-2009 at 09:44 PM..
Reason: spelling
China has 6,000 years of law. 6, 000 years. Say that out loud.
This is a country where, what we would call cops, can write a ticket and send you away to a camp legally. I find it hard to make a very clear comparison.
I agree with you. However, there are major differences.
I am for the death penalty especaily as no other means in this judical system of actaully making sure muders are not later released thru technicality or thru the messed up system as things slip thru the holes in the system.Wedon't enact laws with or children in mind as we expect the accused relaitve to have sympathyty towards and support them in most cases.Otherwise many laws wouldn't get enacted.Most peopole who speed don't agree with being fined regardless of if they go to court;human nature.
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