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You guys are wonderful
Having read nature science for the last 3 years, I have to be a total drag and say, yes, it makes sounds, even if no one is there to hear it. Human, that is - show me the forest where there are no other hearing creatures around to hear the falling trees
Can't resist it...
Why debate whether it makes a sound or not, if the real question is:
If no one is there to see it fall, does the tree actually fall?
(Sorry, but it's close to 1 am here and I've been up since 7 am)
Why debate whether it makes a sound or not, if the real question is:
If no one is there to see it fall, does the tree actually fall?
No! There are several hundred million trees in a state of suspended animation. They would have fallen over, but no-one was there to see them. So they hang in limbo until someone comes along to witness the fall. (There; that was easy, wasn't it?)
so, if I have a recorder setup and record the vibrations created by the tree, carried by the air and listen to it later.....when is the sound created? At the time the tree fell and was recorded, or when I listened to the machine? If not until I listened, then what did the recorder record?
I was going to respond with the exact same question but you beat me to it. The way I see it is that a tape recorder functions in a similar manner to an ear because it can detect and record sound waves that our ears perceive as sound. Sound, by it's very definition, requires a mechanism to detect it and that could be the ear of an animal or human being and it could also be a tape recorder which has been constructed to record sound. It is an interesting question and I think that if there is no ear or sound recording device present when sound waves are generated that there is no sound because there is nothing there to detect it.
Depends on which definition you use:
-------------------------------------- sound
–noun
1. the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium.
2. mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium, traveling in air at a speed of approximately 1087 ft. (331 m) per second at sea level.
-----------------------------
It makes a "sound", Definition 2. but not Definition 1. Not all dictionaries put them in the same order.
Will it really work differently if I choose which definition I prefer?
WOW! I never really believed in all that self-perception stuff before.
......now to stash a recorder and clear a forest of all living creatures...
You guys are wonderful
Having read nature science for the last 3 years, I have to be a total drag and say, yes, it makes sounds, even if no one is there to hear it. Human, that is - show me the forest where there are no other hearing creatures around to hear the falling trees
Can't resist it...
Why debate whether it makes a sound or not, if the real question is:
If no one is there to see it fall, does the tree actually fall?
(Sorry, but it's close to 1 am here and I've been up since 7 am)
I believe the proper answer to this question is: If I don't see it, it ain't there! Therefore the forest does not exist, ergo it cannot make a sound! By Jove, I think Sweden has solved it!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X
No! There are several hundred million trees in a state of suspended animation. They would have fallen over, but no-one was there to see them. So they hang in limbo until someone comes along to witness the fall. (There; that was easy, wasn't it?)
Hate the be the first person to step into that forest and have a few million trees suddenly start falling on me! Does Blue Cross cover that?
You guys are wonderful
Having read nature science for the last 3 years, I have to be a total drag and say, yes, it makes sounds, even if no one is there to hear it. Human, that is - show me the forest where there are no other hearing creatures around to hear the falling trees
Can't resist it...
Why debate whether it makes a sound or not, if the real question is:
If no one is there to see it fall, does the tree actually fall?
(Sorry, but it's close to 1 am here and I've been up since 7 am)
But, if there were not any creatures to process the sound waves then....
The sound waves would eventually dissipate and fade away but upon return to where the tree fell, the tree will have changed positions and you could make a strong case that it had moved.
I saw a sign in Redwoods Nat'l Park about the Geyerville Giant, a tree that fell and was reported to be heard two miles away in a ranger station and sounded like a freight train.
but if the ranger would have been sleeping.........
I think that sound is defined by the waves that are created by the event. The waves don't need an ear to exist, we just need an ear to detect them. Therefore sound exists whether someone is there to hear it or not.
There IS sound, there's just no one there to hear it.
If I turn up my heat and then run outside, because the house is empty and no one is there to hear the water moving through the pipes, does that cancel out the sound?
Hell, I leave my televison on everyday when I go to work. When I walk in the door when I get home, does it hear me turn my key in the door and hurry and start making sound again?
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i remember this conversation when I was young and stoned.
