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Old 03-28-2009, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 9,113,598 times
Reputation: 9523

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We. Were. Formed. As. A. Constitutional. Republic.

"A Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one per cent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." Thomas Jefferson

When asked, "Sir, what form of government have you given us?" Benjamin Franklin replied, "A Republic, madam, if you can keep it."
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Old 03-28-2009, 09:44 AM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,571 posts, read 17,944,907 times
Reputation: 5919
The SUPREME COURT can make a decision 5-4 on a ruling which will affect millons of people.

This should be a unanimous 9-0 on major issues that affect the nation as a whole.

It takes 12 people to convict a peer in court.

Do believe that in many small court cases a 4-2 or a 9-3 vote should be allowed. Lot better then a 5-4 vote on major issues.

Steve
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Old 03-28-2009, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,761,828 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bagu View Post
The SUPREME COURT can make a decision 5-4 on a ruling which will affect millons of people.

This should be a unanimous 9-0 on major issues that affect the nation as a whole.

It takes 12 people to convict a peer in court.

Do believe that in many small court cases a 4-2 or a 9-3 vote should be allowed. Lot better then a 5-4 vote on major issues.

Steve
Except there are two sides in court decisions. Requiring a supermajority would be unfair to the other side.
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Old 03-28-2009, 10:43 AM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,571 posts, read 17,944,907 times
Reputation: 5919
For me a 5-4 ruling means that one person fliped a coin...which could have been a two headed coin.

Cannot see that one person affecting a major ruling. (He/She could have a large cross to bear).
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Old 03-28-2009, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,761,828 times
Reputation: 4539
A SC case generally involves two different sides with different interpretations of the Constitution...not changing the Constitution. If 9-0 was required (or even 6-3), they would have to agree to interpret the Constitution in a certain way, leaving out another view. This would have disastorous consequences along the same lines as the minority always being forced to submit to the will of the majority.

In decisions based on interpretation of the Constitution, a simple majority is always preferable.
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Old 03-28-2009, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,523,609 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bagu View Post
For me a 5-4 ruling means that one person fliped a coin...which could have been a two headed coin.

Cannot see that one person affecting a major ruling. (He/She could have a large cross to bear).
But it is OK with you, requiring a 9-0 majority, to allow one person to "flip a coin" make it 8-1, and thereby obstruct a major ruling. Or if it requires a 7-2, one person can make it 6-3. How do you escape that "one person" paradox?
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Old 03-28-2009, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Pensacola, Fl
656 posts, read 951,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bagu View Post
The SUPREME COURT can make a decision 5-4 on a ruling which will affect millons of people.

This should be a unanimous 9-0 on major issues that affect the nation as a whole.

It takes 12 people to convict a peer in court.

Do believe that in many small court cases a 4-2 or a 9-3 vote should be allowed. Lot better then a 5-4 vote on major issues.

Steve
Oh no no no no no no no.

We already tried that (but on a much larger scale).

Remember the Articles of Confederation?

The more people you have, the more room for dessent is possible. It is impossible to get 9 people to see eye to eye as it is to get thirteen colonies to vote all together (especially when said nine people or thirteen states don't get along).

The Supreme Court wouldn't be able to get anything done if it went to an all for one vote. All it takes is the simple majority for Supreme Court decisions. They are not bound to a political party or pressures to ensure that they vote honest and accordingly. Make it so that they all have to agree the same way on an issue and the court becomes A LOT less efficient.
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Old 03-28-2009, 12:37 PM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,571 posts, read 17,944,907 times
Reputation: 5919
Have had my coffee break and played with dogs so I'm back.

I totally agree with the majority ruling.

My point is that the Supreme Court 5-4 decision means that 5 people were in agreement on a matter and 4 were opposed to the decision making. (being negative) This affects millions.

On the other hand of a minor nature...small courts need a 12 person vote to convict a person of a non-violent crime which could result in many years of confinement.

Then you have the court cases where there was a split vote by the jury which resulted in a new trial and wasted tax payer money. The courts deemed they had the upper hand and were determined to convict a person come hell or high water thus the retrial.

I have been on two jurys...once as foreperson on a shop lifting case.. We found the man innocent as was justly so by the 12 vote decision. What if we were allowed to have a split decision of 9-3...9 innocent and 3 guilty? Should that be allowed considering the Supreme Court can do a 5-4 vote?

Know I'm going to get a rebuttal.

I feel laws are meant for the betterment of the population when used in context.

Traffic signals are meant just that...to regulate and control smooth flow of autos.

Now it's 11:30 PM and your stopped at a intersection with NO cars in any direction...should you sit and wait for the Traffic Light to go thru it's cycle or just drive on thru carefully? Stop signs could be on the same level. But NO way...a cop may be sitting around the corner to write a ticket...after all the city needs the money...regardless if it's a little corrupt way of doing it. Money is the bottom line...not logic.

Many cities have a flashing amber during the late night/early morning hours and resume normal cycle at 6 AM for the daily traffic.

Jumping around a litle I know...everybody has some bone to pick now and then including me.

Steve
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Old 03-28-2009, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,761,828 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bagu View Post
Have had my coffee break and played with dogs so I'm back.

I totally agree with the majority ruling.

My point is that the Supreme Court 5-4 decision means that 5 people were in agreement on a matter and 4 were opposed to the decision making. (being negative) This affects millions.

On the other hand of a minor nature...small courts need a 12 person vote to convict a person of a non-violent crime which could result in many years of confinement.

Then you have the court cases where there was a split vote by the jury which resulted in a new trial and wasted tax payer money. The courts deemed they had the upper hand and were determined to convict a person come hell or high water thus the retrial.

I have been on two jurys...once as foreperson on a shop lifting case.. We found the man innocent as was justly so by the 12 vote decision. What if we were allowed to have a split decision of 9-3...9 innocent and 3 guilty? Should that be allowed considering the Supreme Court can do a 5-4 vote?
Actually, in many (most?) states, a jury of only 6 is required in misdemeanor cases (minor crimes).

What I think you are not getting is that, let's say that a 6-3 decision was required, well then what happens if there's a 5-4 vote? The Supreme Court's job is not to change the Constitution (in which case I DO believe a supermajority should be required), but rather to interpret it. There are two different interpretations of it and the fairest way is a simple majority. It would be unfair to the other side if it required a 6-3 decision.

The Supreme Court does not have to decide if facts are proven beyond a reasonable doubt...it is an entirely different thing that the two courts are trying to accomplish.
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Old 03-28-2009, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,523,609 times
Reputation: 35864
There are two kinds of traffic signs. One is mandatory (They are white) and one is advisory (they are yellow, for example, Curve--35 MPH.) It is legal to violate the advisory ones, provided you do not have an accident. If you do have an accident, in violation of an advisory sign, that is prima facie evidence of reckless driving.

If more of the signs (including red lights) were classified as advisory, one could use common sense at the lights, and be subject to a ticket only if an accident resulted.
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