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Old 09-04-2010, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,022 posts, read 16,951,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Depends upon how you look at things I guess.
Yes, if you take a vacuum vision of things then yeah, it's great to be left alone but that means that existing practices (cannibalism etc.) are not replaced.
I think many people here are taking romantic versions of events because basically, human society is just one big series of stronger cultures preying upon weaker.
Heck, in this very thread we have people lamenting the end of the aztecs and incas to collonialism when OTHER native peoples no doubt cheered the event.
I just think people have an incomplete or limited view when decrying colonialism which in reality is just another form of cultural and genetic invasion which has gone on for 100,000 years.
P.S. If you have a serious problem with this then you should have a major problem with the latino invasion of north america....perspective is everything after all.
We are talking past each other. I agree completely that colonialism was just a form of "cultural and genetic invasion" and "stronger cultures preying upon weaker" and that these things have been going on since before the advent of written history. I merely wrote that in general, colonialism was not to the benefit of those colonized. Did you notice the "in general" in my post? By including that phrase, I was intentionally leaving the door open to the fact that in some limited instances colonialism halted aggressors who were already in place and ended practices which were horrible, such as human sacrifice by the Aztecs. But the practices of the colonizers in Africa (since Africa is the subject of the OP) were hardly benign (in general), and this is hardly surprising given the dark side of human nature (greed). I think Africa is still struggling to overcome the ill effects.

 
Old 09-04-2010, 12:22 PM
 
8,804 posts, read 9,626,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Slavery hasn't ended in Africa...nor in the US for that matter. Not as widespread and illegal (at least in the US) but it's still out there.

I would disagree that it ended due to a economic and not moral reasons. There were a number of countries pressing the US to end slavery and the church is fairly powerful especially back in the day.

Heck, look at prohibition and other drives in the US launched for moral reasons despite huge economic costs. (War on drugs?)
"I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of White men and Black races, I am not nor ever been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office nor to intermarry with White people; and I will say that there is a physical difference between the races that will forbid the two races living together on equal term of social and political equality."
Abraham Lincoln
from The Battle Cry of Freedom, James McPherson,pg186

The moral wrong that the South was accused of exploiting pertained to the labor of the Black man and not particularly his humanity.
 
Old 09-04-2010, 05:50 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
16,469 posts, read 33,431,905 times
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Quote:
Colonialism/Slave trade. Do your really believe it was a good thing?
For Africa? I wish that the Africa continent could have been a remote island like Australia and remained untouched by Western civilization. Just letting the tribes and wildlife do their thing without the rest of the world.

Otherwise, I do think that the colonialism thing wasn't all that bad. The Brits brought their engineering skills to Africa. My boyfriend's stepdad was one of the engineers on for the Nairobi International Airport. And our Western modern medicine has helped the African people.

And the slave trade... that was something that the stronger African tribes did for commerce. And it the overall picture, the slave trade is what got blacks living on the other continents, including the Americas...

And untouched and left in isolation by the European whites, the African people would still be living in the Stone Age. And the same goes for the Australian Aborigines, the New Zealand Maoris, and the Native Americans of North America.
 
Old 09-04-2010, 06:33 PM
 
4,379 posts, read 4,275,368 times
Reputation: 1612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Slavery hasn't ended in Africa...nor in the US for that matter. Not as widespread and illegal (at least in the US) but it's still out there.

I would disagree that it ended due to a economic and not moral reasons. There were a number of countries pressing the US to end slavery and the church is fairly powerful especially back in the day.

Heck, look at prohibition and other drives in the US launched for moral reasons despite huge economic costs. (War on drugs?)
But these other countries only followed the general trend.

The environment in the day was so. The UK ended the slave trade and then slavery (when it was the largest slave trading country) because of the Industrial Revolution's effect. Why own slaves when factories are more productive? The UK then pressured and convinced other countries to abolish slavery, such as Portugal, France, etc. The USA was the anomaly since the Civil War was fought (even if not exclusively) because the South didn't want to give up slavery. The Industrial Revolution ended the slavery era, not any moral epiphany.
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