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Old 03-28-2009, 06:50 PM
 
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The root of the word slave is Slav or Slovenci/ or Slovenian, they were enslaved by the romans prolly for as long as the English enslaved Africans. The English did'nt invent Slavery, I think they just did it badly. They were still in effect fighting Indians long after they ended slavery. Its too easy to call it a bad thing now in retrospect, but what other models for establishing themselves in a New world did they have. I think it wasn't as much greed that guided them as religious beliefs about their superiority over Africans and Natives who were in effect savages in the Garden of Eden

 
Old 03-28-2009, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Way South of the Volvo Line
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Well, it's nearly impossible to be objective about this subject, but I'll make a stab at it. European colonialism was very bad for the continent of Africa and it's many nations. It inflamed inherent discord to the extreme, established arbitrary boundaries based on colonial controls of minerals and labor instead of language, culture and terrain. A recipe for future strife.
On the other hand, despite being stripped of our native culture and language, it eventually afforded African-Americans access to technologies, land rights, and education that is still withheld from many native Africans.A trial by fire obviuosly. One can still see the dearing effects of colonialism in the structure or lack of in many African governments. A lot of misplaced nationalism or tribal hatreds are based on age old relationships with European overlords, pro and con.
I would have to say history shows it(slavery/colonialism) to be bad. The middle ages were prosperous for many African nations, building regional empires like Mali, and expanede trade routes extending thruogh the middle East. Who is to say what African peoples could have accompished if their local national wars had played out on their own instead of being exploited by Arab and European players.
 
Old 03-28-2009, 06:54 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
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IMO colonialism brought both good and bad and it's all up to your individual perceptions to take it from there.

We had to have done something right being that even the most die hard PIP activists will grudgingly admit that US rule has enormously benefited Puerto Rico. Look at Hong Kong for another example, when the British first showed up in 1841 it was a collection of a few fishing villages but when they returned Hong Kong to China in 1997 they left an economic powerhouse and one of the most advanced cities on the planet.
 
Old 03-28-2009, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
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A while back, I saw a map of Africa according to the tribes that inhabit the continent. If each individual tribe had sovereignty over its traditional lands, which they did, once upon a time, there would be more than 450 independent states in Africa.

The enduring legacy of colonialism has been strife, because the present national boundaries (which were drawn up at the Congress of Vienna in 1885, at a time when Africa was pretty well unknown to Europeans) are completely artificial--they cut across tribal/language lines, and have caused more problems than anything else. Especially since it's virtually guaranteed that most of the "nations" created when colonial powers left Africa could never be cohesive.
 
Old 03-28-2009, 08:29 PM
 
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To justify colonialism I have find something inherently bad with tribal life and primitivism compared to modernism and civilization.Why do tribal cultures seem to thrive (even today) until they are exposed to colonist?

Last edited by thriftylefty; 03-28-2009 at 08:50 PM..
 
Old 03-28-2009, 08:47 PM
 
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Well (to the OP), what are the ideas you've read or heard about why slavery may have benifited Africans in the big picture? Without some specifics on this, it's difficult to discuss the question. You've also suggested something that most of us are likely to reject catagorically, to be frank, so there needs to be some specific suggestion of what benefits there may have been, if it's really going to be possible to have a discussion, rather than repeated reflections on the evils of slavery.
 
Old 03-29-2009, 04:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
It's not about the "you" or "I" factor. The world at large, if it had learned from history, there would not be any strife today.

But that "if" is exactly what the Das Kapital tells you. If man does not exploit his fellow human........

The truth is, it's not going to happen. It's man's natural self to exploit and make profit.

Millions of my compatriots whine about the 500 years of British rule. They are as revisionist as how it would have gotten rid of poverty. But the truth is that it had to happen. If not the British, someone else.

And it's impossible to impress upon one billion folks in the world to stick to ethics, honesty, justice, it's utopia again.


"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - the great Will Durant

You have conveniently ignored the thousands of Africans who collaborated in the slave trade and helped supply.

Capturing the Africans from the various villages is like one of Hercules' tasks. The huge unknown continent, the physical strength of the people, the nature of the terrain and wilderness and the logistic impossibility of committing sizeable armies to perform this activity. There were African slave traders who helped woo and collect in return for money. The colonialists did not accomplish this alone.

We can't lay the blame at one door.
I will admit there was some internal distress. The question is why was "Africa" in particular the place that was taken advantage of.
 
Old 03-29-2009, 05:09 PM
 
44,564 posts, read 43,103,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
Well (to the OP), what are the ideas you've read or heard about why slavery may have benifited Africans in the big picture? Without some specifics on this, it's difficult to discuss the question. You've also suggested something that most of us are likely to reject catagorically, to be frank, so there needs to be some specific suggestion of what benefits there may have been, if it's really going to be possible to have a discussion, rather than repeated reflections on the evils of slavery.
There are people who make the argument that because Blacks in America have higher standard of living than many of the African nations and use it to say that slavery wasn't a bad thing. Blacks in America have it better now than before because they fought for things. Some people might say to look at the big picture, but the reason for any of it wasn't for anyone's benefit. People got greedy and took advantage of many things. Colonialism was used to take control of resources. Slavery on the bigger scale was used as a form of free labor so no one would have to pay anyone. Slavery was started inside Africa. Certain people took slaves as prisoners of war. Slavery was still a horrible thing.
 
Old 03-30-2009, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
I will admit there was some internal distress. The question is why was "Africa" in particular the place that was taken advantage of.
Africa was taken advantage of because it was slower to advance. And this was not due to any physical/mental inability of the continents inhabitants it is more due to a lack of advantage. Other than the extremes of the continent (north and south) Africa is not very hospitable and does not bode well for farming to develop on its own. I mean what good farming crop grows naturally in Africa? Also there are very few if any animals that can be domesticated. And without the easy access to food afforded to a civilization that has agriculture/domesticated animals, most Africans did not have the free time necessary to make scientific advances.

Now as to whether or not colonization was good for Africa you would have to ask yourself whether they would better off in their current situation or as the tribal nomadic cultures that they were before.
 
Old 03-30-2009, 01:03 PM
Status: "Bountiful pine needle harvest" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Near Manito
19,272 posts, read 20,151,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
Africa was taken advantage of because it was slower to advance. And this was not due to any physical/mental inability of the continents inhabitants it is more due to a lack of advantage. Other than the extremes of the continent (north and south) Africa is not very hospitable and does not bode well for farming to develop on its own. I mean what good farming crop grows naturally in Africa? Also there are very few if any animals that can be domesticated. And without the easy access to food afforded to a civilization that has agriculture/domesticated animals, most Africans did not have the free time necessary to make scientific advances.

Now as to whether or not colonization was good for Africa you would have to ask yourself whether they would better off in their current situation or as the tribal nomadic cultures that they were before.
The phrase "better off" is a difficult one to pin down. If one defines it by the development of civilization as it currently perceived, then "better off" would center mainly on the possession of agricultural skills, industrial technology of a higher or lower order, and the ability to analyze and make reason-based assertions about society and human relations.

These phenomena, however, would inevitably be accompanied by the contemporary search for meaning in life in the face of daily alienations, ways to repair the damage done to the environment and to other species, and the inevitable conflicts which arise in human relationships when those relationships are based on employment or other forms of physical and social detachmnent.

The latter problems would be minimized in a more "primitive" culture, which is grounded in familial and tribal ritual, a lifelong proximity to subsistence and natural phenomena relating to time, space, seasons, and the environment, and and the essential ignorance of, and thus non-reliance on verbal and analytical reasoning beyond that required for basic communication. Of course, the inhabitants of such a culture would lead shorter and perhaps more painful and more physically difficult lives.

The question that would seem to arise might be summed up as: is technological and analytical progress worth the forfeiture of physical, social, and psychic security and self-sufficiency?

IN the end, "better-off" appears to be one of those concepts which is best approached with a great deal of skepticism (and humility) when one is forced to consider it more closely, especially in the light of contemporary circumstances.
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