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Old 03-30-2009, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Good things and Bad things do not occur in history. Inevitable things occur in history, which are viewed as good or bad in retrospect, from the viewpoint of the culture that looks back at it.

 
Old 03-30-2009, 02:45 PM
Status: "Bountiful pine needle harvest" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Near Manito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Good things and Bad things do not occur in history. Inevitable things occur in history, which are viewed as good or bad in retrospect, from the viewpoint of the culture that looks back at it.
I'm not so sure about the "inevitability" part. Many things which may well have been quite "evitable" came about through simple human ignorance or laziness.

Someone (Burke? Gladstone?)) once said that "Irresistable forces are often simply those forces which are not resisted."
 
Old 03-30-2009, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
I'm not so sure about the "inevitability" part. Many things which may well have been quite "evitable" came about through simple human ignorance or laziness.
Can you imagine the European kingdoms, capable of sailing ships to heathen continents, NOT colonizing them and enslaving their inhabitants and stealing their resources? That is about as inevitable as it gets.
 
Old 03-30-2009, 04:23 PM
Status: "Bountiful pine needle harvest" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Near Manito
19,275 posts, read 20,160,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Can you imagine the European kingdoms, capable of sailing ships to heathen continents, NOT colonizing them and enslaving their inhabitants and stealing their resources? That is about as inevitable as it gets.
But was it inevitable that the European kingdoms would have become mercantile empires, enslaved by certain metaphors (wealth as the measurement of virtue, Christianity as determined by the early church conclaves, conquest as a means of exrpessing one's power) and not others?

Couldn't it be argued that such phenomena came about as the result of a lack of imagination among early humans, ill-will and ignorance on the part of some early church leaders, and an essentially violence-prone approach to the unknown which had not evolved sufficently since the times when isolated tribes were beating each other up with the jawbones of ground sloths?
 
Old 03-30-2009, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Way South of the Volvo Line
2,776 posts, read 6,966,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
Africa was taken advantage of because it was slower to advance. And this was not due to any physical/mental inability of the continents inhabitants it is more due to a lack of advantage. Other than the extremes of the continent (north and south) Africa is not very hospitable and does not bode well for farming to develop on its own. I mean what good farming crop grows naturally in Africa? Also there are very few if any animals that can be domesticated. And without the easy access to food afforded to a civilization that has agriculture/domesticated animals, most Africans did not have the free time necessary to make scientific advances.

Now as to whether or not colonization was good for Africa you would have to ask yourself whether they would better off in their current situation or as the tribal nomadic cultures that they were before.
European culture was reborn after the Great Plague into a thriving hungry family of nations, rich in art, military might, but lacking mineral wealth. Africa had both mineral wealth and the physical bodies(cheap labor) capable of sustaining a growing European middle class.
It was mostly the disparity in military technology that kept Africans from determining their own cultural futures.

About.com:

Africa during the Middle Ages

Medieval Africa - the great kingdoms - Philobiblon
 
Old 03-30-2009, 05:56 PM
Status: "Bountiful pine needle harvest" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Near Manito
19,275 posts, read 20,160,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrackly View Post
European culture was reborn after the Great Plague into a thriving hungry family of nations, rich in art, military might, but lacking mineral wealth. Africa had both mineral wealth and the physical bodies(cheap labor) capable of sustaining a growing European middle class.
It was mostly the disparity in military technology that kept Africans from determining their own cultural futures.

About.com:

Africa during the Middle Ages

Medieval Africa - the great kingdoms - Philobiblon
Permit me to add a work with a broader perspective to that list:

Amazon.com: Carnage and Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power: Victor Hanson: Your Store
 
Old 03-30-2009, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,222 posts, read 6,992,930 times
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The slave trade during the years when the USA was still a Colony was an evil abomination.
However even GOOD THINGS can come from evil events.

How many current African/Americans that are descendants of slaves are standing in line to get on a boat to go back to Africa?
If you are an African/American in the United States do you really believe your life would be better today if your ancestors had not been sold into slavery?

Every one of us no matter what our Race should understand how evil slavery was and still is.
However even GOOD THINGS can come from evil events.

GL2
 
Old 03-30-2009, 06:34 PM
 
8,798 posts, read 9,623,537 times
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Zulus were to my knowledege the only tribal culture to defeat a technologicaly advanced army. they were eventually conquered, but they were said to have nearly decimated the Europeans in one battle with primitive weapons in the 19th? century. They were not as much a tribal culture as they were an Army made up of a numbers of groups. Today they are highly regarded in South Africa. If you see an African in South African driving a Mercedes and living in a $150,000 house it is most likely a Zulu. Today They have the riches tribal lands of all Africans in S.A. . The lesson learned too late in history is if all the Native Americans United like the Zulus, it would not have been so easy to plow over them even with superior military technology
 
Old 03-30-2009, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post

Couldn't it be argued that such phenomena came about as the result of a lack of imagination among early humans, ill-will and ignorance on the part of some early church leaders, and an essentially violence-prone approach to the unknown which had not evolved sufficently since the times when isolated tribes were beating each other up with the jawbones of ground sloths?
Yes, but those human characteristics are eternal and are still with us, and it is those human attributes themselves which made the course of human history inevitable. Modern humans still lack imagination, which is why Americans can't think of any other way to deal with antisocial behavior except to throw two million people into private for-profit prisons. Nothing is more steeped in ill-will and ignorance than the church, now as then. The violence-prone approach to the unknown was most recently exhibited in Shock And Awe.
 
Old 03-31-2009, 05:22 AM
 
1,525 posts, read 3,294,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
I am not intending this is be a flame war. I am asking a real question and seeking opinions. I hear many people out there who believe that colonialism and the slave trade was a good thing for Africa. I look at it from a historical and human perspective. From what I have read, the end results of the slave trade and colonialism have left its mark, and in many ways, a bad thing. I still believe the slave trade/colonialism was a bad thing. I have read the books and see that it was motivated by greed and was never meant to benefit the persons in Africa. There are those people out there who think Africa needed it. I know this is a controversial thread and there will be opposing views, but I would appreciate it if personal insults were not used.
Nope, I really don't think it was a good thing.

Get ready for round two. I heard on the radio that China is now moving into Africa. Or, "making investments" as they painted it.
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