U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Easter!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 03-31-2009, 05:25 AM
 
Location: Connecticut
1,461 posts, read 4,099,817 times
Reputation: 1646

Advertisements

Please, rent the movie AMISTAD and then reconsider your post.

 
Old 03-31-2009, 08:00 AM
 
8,807 posts, read 9,626,228 times
Reputation: 6694
I don't think you can call colonizing and enslaving a good or bad thing, it was probally the only option. I think the more technologically advanced society got the less enslaving, raiding, plundering pillaging is required for the future generations survival. The problem of survival is a convergent one. If you are hungry you can plant,fish,or hunt, but to keep from starving to death you have to be strong enough to "take " from some one who has already hunted ,fished or harvested. Slavery in America ended not based on moral objections, Quakers objected from the onset. It ended because technology made it obsolete. by 1920 modernization of farms caused massive migrations out of the south. Maybe the future of technology will make war obsolete, (like colonizing a planet)
 
Old 03-31-2009, 08:28 AM
 
Location: USA
163 posts, read 365,091 times
Reputation: 96
slave trade in Africa began long before Colonial times
 
Old 03-31-2009, 09:37 AM
Status: "Bountiful pine needle harvest" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Near Manito
19,279 posts, read 20,160,099 times
Reputation: 13368
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Yes, but those human characteristics are eternal and are still with us, and it is those human attributes themselves which made the course of human history inevitable. Modern humans still lack imagination, which is why Americans can't think of any other way to deal with antisocial behavior except to throw two million people into private for-profit prisons. Nothing is more steeped in ill-will and ignorance than the church, now as then. The violence-prone approach to the unknown was most recently exhibited in Shock And Awe.
I can understand your references to contemporary political phenomena as the source of your cynicism, but I disagree with your conclusion that these phenomena are indicative of some sort of eternal verities about the human condition, or that the religious aspects of life can be summarized as "steeped in ill-will and ignorance." The latter phrase sounds both suspiciously self-descriptive and overly derivative of the admittedly charismatic Sam Harris.
 
Old 03-31-2009, 09:42 AM
 
44,593 posts, read 43,126,107 times
Reputation: 14390
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Yes, but those human characteristics are eternal and are still with us, and it is those human attributes themselves which made the course of human history inevitable. Modern humans still lack imagination, which is why Americans can't think of any other way to deal with antisocial behavior except to throw two million people into private for-profit prisons. Nothing is more steeped in ill-will and ignorance than the church, now as then. The violence-prone approach to the unknown was most recently exhibited in Shock And Awe.
The church is not of ill will. Religion is not of ill will. Certain persons have abused religion to manipulate people. Christianity itself would allow such abuses, but certain people do stupid things.
 
Old 03-31-2009, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
Reputation: 35869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
but I disagree with your conclusion . . . that the religious aspects of life can be summarized as "steeped in ill-will and ignorance." .
"ill-will and ignorance on the part of some early church leaders"---Those were your words. I just suggested that the thought was more pervasive and inclusive than you did.
 
Old 03-31-2009, 10:01 AM
 
44,593 posts, read 43,126,107 times
Reputation: 14390
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
I don't think you can call colonizing and enslaving a good or bad thing, it was probally the only option. I think the more technologically advanced society got the less enslaving, raiding, plundering pillaging is required for the future generations survival. The problem of survival is a convergent one. If you are hungry you can plant,fish,or hunt, but to keep from starving to death you have to be strong enough to "take " from some one who has already hunted ,fished or harvested. Slavery in America ended not based on moral objections, Quakers objected from the onset. It ended because technology made it obsolete. by 1920 modernization of farms caused massive migrations out of the south. Maybe the future of technology will make war obsolete, (like colonizing a planet)
I still view it as a matter of right and wrong.
 
Old 03-31-2009, 10:02 AM
Status: "Bountiful pine needle harvest" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Near Manito
19,279 posts, read 20,160,099 times
Reputation: 13368
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
"ill-will and ignorance on the part of some early church leaders"---Those were your words. I just suggested that the thought was more pervasive and inclusive than you did.
I would suggest that the qualifier "some" is often overlooked -- and underused.
 
Old 03-31-2009, 12:16 PM
 
8,807 posts, read 9,626,228 times
Reputation: 6694
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
I still view it as a matter of right and wrong.
Yes I agree,
but I read a book on Irish American History that told how a young imigrant homeless Irish girl died in the street gutter starving while people stepped over her in America. After all she was just Irish. but a slave too old and infirmed to work sat Idly whiling away the hours with no want for shelter food a drink. The story of the Irish and Black people in the building of America presents a compelling duallity, of the "history of labor" if you will, given the choice of slavery or free labor which was better for building a nation and which was(is) more humane. I think if we could look at
" Slavery in the abstract," remove all immoral treatment of slaves, we might have a system equal to or better than what we have now
 
Old 03-31-2009, 05:08 PM
 
3,277 posts, read 4,494,411 times
Reputation: 1908
Can't say, in general. Not all situations were the same. In countries which peacefully gained independence and were left with stable democratic institutions(Botswana, SA) they enjoy the stability that is required to grow economically and otherwise. Colonies that had to earn independence through war inevitably descended into civil war between the winning parties and to this day lack stability(former Portuguese colonies, Zimbabwe and its various wars). Some colonies were essentially raped and pillaged while others came out relatively unscathed. Some are bad for some and obviously much more comfortable for others.

This also makes generalizing about the entire continent very difficult, for anyone informed at least. There are as many different circumstances and situations as there are countries today, likely even more.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top