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Old 03-28-2009, 04:14 PM
 
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I am not intending this is be a flame war. I am asking a real question and seeking opinions. I hear many people out there who believe that colonialism and the slave trade was a good thing for Africa. I look at it from a historical and human perspective. From what I have read, the end results of the slave trade and colonialism have left its mark, and in many ways, a bad thing. I still believe the slave trade/colonialism was a bad thing. I have read the books and see that it was motivated by greed and was never meant to benefit the persons in Africa. There are those people out there who think Africa needed it. I know this is a controversial thread and there will be opposing views, but I would appreciate it if personal insults were not used.

Last edited by green_mariner; 03-28-2009 at 04:39 PM.. Reason: I needed to specify that it was the colonialism/slave trade involving Africa.

 
Old 03-28-2009, 04:28 PM
 
Location: From Ulster, now in England.
105 posts, read 158,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
and colonialism .
Well, if Britain did not colonise the USA, you'd still be in Europe .

There would be no Australia or New Zealand .Also, Canada would be empty.
 
Old 03-28-2009, 04:37 PM
 
44,548 posts, read 43,091,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulster_Loyal View Post
Well, if Britain did not colonise the USA, you'd still be in Europe .

There would be no Australia or New Zealand .Also, Canada would be empty.
I will rephrase that. I was talking about the slave trade/colonialism involving the continent of Africa. I will correct that in the OP.
 
Old 03-28-2009, 04:53 PM
 
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It was odd that the English would come to the new world with such an archaic system as slavery. The problem inherent with importing slaves and not being able to successfully exploit the natives for their use was the cost of each slave. It wasn’t long before the slave laborer became a currency.
 
Old 03-28-2009, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,022 posts, read 24,673,685 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
I am not intending this is be a flame war. I am asking a real question and seeking opinions. I hear many people out there who believe that colonialism and the slave trade was a good thing for Africa. I look at it from a historical and human perspective. From what I have read, the end results of the slave trade and colonialism have left its mark, and in many ways, a bad thing. I still believe the slave trade/colonialism was a bad thing. I have read the books and see that it was motivated by greed and was never meant to benefit the persons in Africa. There are those people out there who think Africa needed it. I know this is a controversial thread and there will be opposing views, but I would appreciate it if personal insults were not used.
The moral businessman is like the firebird in Russian fairy tales. It rarely appears.

Business is money/profit/greed driven. There's no room for emotions.

Slave trade had to happen. Colonialism had to happen. Someone needed money in their coffers.

It's no different to this day. Slave trade has been replaced by low wage labour, outsourcing, offshoring etc.

It's not going to be any different in the future.

Every human being who wants to do something wants to do it at its lowest cost. Is anyone going to steer clear of this thumb rule?
 
Old 03-28-2009, 06:06 PM
 
44,548 posts, read 43,091,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
The moral businessman is like the firebird in Russian fairy tales. It rarely appears.

Business is money/profit/greed driven. There's no room for emotions.

Slave trade had to happen. Colonialism had to happen. Someone needed money in their coffers.

It's no different to this day. Slave trade has been replaced by low wage labour, outsourcing, offshoring etc.

It's not going to be any different in the future.

Every human being who wants to do something wants to do it at its lowest cost. Is anyone going to steer clear of this thumb rule?
It doesn't make it any less wrong. Africa was pretty much leached off of out of greed of others.
 
Old 03-28-2009, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,022 posts, read 24,673,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
It doesn't make it any less wrong. Africa was pretty much leached off of out of greed of others.
I don't disagree there.

But I have a problem with humanist revisionism of history. We are getting into Socialism territory, actually.

The ideal society is sheer utopia
 
Old 03-28-2009, 06:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
I don't disagree there.

But I have a problem with humanist revisionism of history. We are getting into Socialism territory, actually.

The ideal society is sheer utopia
You can't change history. You can only read about it, learn it, and decide if what those persons did was right or wrong. I don't see what is wrong with not taking advantage of others.

An ideal society might be sheer utopia, but then wars aren't fought anymore and most of the world's problems would end.
 
Old 03-28-2009, 06:19 PM
 
44,548 posts, read 43,091,728 times
Reputation: 14373
One point I do want to make is that I have heard many people say that colonialism was a benefit for Africa. Honestly, colonialism was a plot to control resources from far away. Some would say that colonialism helped to bring technology and civilization to Africa. The technology brought to Africa was not meant to benefit the local population. It was meant to benefit the persons colonizing the continent.
 
Old 03-28-2009, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,022 posts, read 24,673,685 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
You can't change history. You can only read about it, learn it, and decide if what those persons did was right or wrong. I don't see what is wrong with not taking advantage of others.

An ideal society might be sheer utopia, but then wars aren't fought anymore and most of the world's problems would end.
It's not about the "you" or "I" factor. The world at large, if it had learned from history, there would not be any strife today.

But that "if" is exactly what the Das Kapital tells you. If man does not exploit his fellow human........

The truth is, it's not going to happen. It's man's natural self to exploit and make profit.

Millions of my compatriots whine about the 500 years of British rule. They are as revisionist as how it would have gotten rid of poverty. But the truth is that it had to happen. If not the British, someone else.

And it's impossible to impress upon one billion folks in the world to stick to ethics, honesty, justice, it's utopia again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
One point I do want to make is that I have heard many people say that colonialism was a benefit for Africa. Honestly, colonialism was a plot to control resources from far away. Some would say that colonialism helped to bring technology and civilization to Africa. The technology brought to Africa was not meant to benefit the local population. It was meant to benefit the persons colonizing the continent.
"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." - the great Will Durant

You have conveniently ignored the thousands of Africans who collaborated in the slave trade and helped supply.

Capturing the Africans from the various villages is like one of Hercules' tasks. The huge unknown continent, the physical strength of the people, the nature of the terrain and wilderness and the logistic impossibility of committing sizeable armies to perform this activity. There were African slave traders who helped woo and collect in return for money. The colonialists did not accomplish this alone.

We can't lay the blame at one door.
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