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Old 04-04-2009, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes +
5,554 posts, read 5,867,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
I think that all animals, including humans are wired to look out for their own best interests... in other words, selfish. Sure, there are many like Mother Theresa doing selfless acts, however the ultimate goal for her was to please her god and get into heaven. Most charity is done in the name of a god with the ultimate goal being to get into heaven or to avoid a hell.

Seeking pleasure is a selfish act, whether it's looking for love, sex, food or seeking a warm clean safe spot to sleep in. It's all about fulfilling our needs and cravings. And there's nothing wrong with that, since if you don't look out for yourself, no one else will.

As to parents taking care of their kids, well that's a desire to see their genetic material continuing on to future generations and to have someone there to take care of them in their old age.
That has never been or never was a thought for my having children. Once you have kids, you can't even think about yourself. You would die for a child if you had to. That is the only love that goes beyond self. You can't help feeling that way - there is no reasoning involved at all. For a mother, it goes way beyond mental - it's both physical and mental and there's no help for it. I know parents who wish they did not feel so much love for their children - kids who disappointed them - and parents who still, and always will, love them, no matter what.
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes +
5,554 posts, read 5,867,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfagoody View Post
Of course it is you feel better about your self or whatever you get out of it and the someone else gets your help doing whatever you did. Win win in my book.
You answered that rather quickly. I get nothing out of helping someone when I feel I should and hating it at the same time which means I am doing it because it is forced on me but not because I want to. Or when I have a date that I have looked forward to for months and something comes up and I have to help someone - no. I don't think that's selfish.

From your response, I assume you can find nothing anyone does that is selfless?
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Old 04-04-2009, 11:00 AM
 
2,751 posts, read 4,710,678 times
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To hear some of the takes on this thread nobody ever does anything for any other person without some conscious or subconscious self-serving motive. So when you put someone's needs before your own, really you are only doing it to ease your guilt, or to get into Heaven or to see your genes survive into another generation. It really becomes a silly argument, strictly Philosophy 101. I only feed my kids to spare myself the pain of watching them starve to death.

Oh yeah, and if a tree falls in the forest it makes a loud, crashing, branch-snapping sound. Whether there's anyone there to here it or not.

Last edited by ExPit; 04-04-2009 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 04-04-2009, 11:13 AM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,030,761 times
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I agree its a selfish cealf serving conversation. Who either beleieve that peole do unslefish things or you don't. Its easy to argue anyhting based on human behavior.Logis doies not make things true just as look at yourself does mean it applies to others.
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,858 posts, read 43,569,222 times
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For me personally, it is only the God in my life who takes my inner want of greed and balances it with the understanding of the outer need of share. Maybe other people have found some formula to keep their own self honest.....but for me.....it's the relationship I have with Jesus that keeps me from only caring about myself.
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Old 04-05-2009, 02:34 AM
 
1,245 posts, read 1,228,686 times
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I already refuted this thread way earlier, why are you people still debating it? It is a fact that some people sacrifice greater happiness for lesser happiness (usually the satisfaction of helping someone) which therefor makes their action selfLESS
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Old 04-05-2009, 06:38 AM
 
3,651 posts, read 8,113,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aylalou View Post
You answered that rather quickly. I get nothing out of helping someone when I feel I should and hating it at the same time which means I am doing it because it is forced on me but not because I want to.
Of course you do. If it is "forced" on you then you decided that going along w/whoever is forcing you to do it outweighs the consequences of telling them to shove it...ie gave you the best gaining plesure or avoiding pain combination available to you at the time.

Quote:
Or when I have a date that I have looked forward to for months and something comes up and I have to help someone - no. I don't think that's selfish.
Of course it is, and for the same reason.

Quote:
From your response, I assume you can find nothing anyone does that is selfless?
I thought I made that pretty clear right up front.
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Old 04-05-2009, 07:58 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
16,469 posts, read 33,425,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aylalou View Post
You answered that rather quickly. I get nothing out of helping someone when I feel I should and hating it at the same time which means I am doing it because it is forced on me but not because I want to. Or when I have a date that I have looked forward to for months and something comes up and I have to help someone - no. I don't think that's selfish.
That's a very American/christian parental response. In most Third Word countries, their children are not placed on little pedestals. Children are there for the betterment of the family, some are sent out to beg, others go to work for the income. In a couple of African nations, children are abducted to become child soldiers. South America has problems with abandoned children and teens living on the streets. Look at those ads for the christian save a child type organizations. Those kids are not orphans, they just belong to impoverished families.

Quote:
From your response, I assume you can find nothing anyone does that is selfless?
Nope. Not really. Ultimately, there is always a reason for those "selfless" acts. All those christian charities are doing "god's work" so they can please him and get into his heaven. Other people do nice things because it makes them feel good about themselves, perhaps it makes them feel that their life isn't that bad by comparison, or in a superstitious way they feel doing good acts adds to their good karma. Or even getting thanks for a good act, makes someone feel appreciated and liked. And who doesn't enjoy the feeling of being popular and admired?

Human beings are wired up to be social creatures, sort of like the way dogs prefer being in a dog pack and not a solitary creature. So peer pressure and the need to be accepted by ones social group is a strong drive within all of us.
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Old 04-05-2009, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes +
5,554 posts, read 5,867,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
Of course you do. If it is "forced" on you then you decided that going along w/whoever is forcing you to do it outweighs the consequences of telling them to shove it...ie gave you the best gaining plesure or avoiding pain combination available to you at the time.

Of course it is, and for the same reason.

I thought I made that pretty clear right up front.
Not really. You just repeated yourself. I still don't agree.
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Old 04-05-2009, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Land of 10000 Lakes +
5,554 posts, read 5,867,984 times
Reputation: 8560
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
That's a very American/christian parental response. In most Third Word countries, their children are not placed on little pedestals. Children are there for the betterment of the family, some are sent out to beg, others go to work for the income. In a couple of African nations, children are abducted to become child soldiers. South America has problems with abandoned children and teens living on the streets. Look at those ads for the christian save a child type organizations. Those kids are not orphans, they just belong to impoverished families.

I don't think feelings for a child places them on a pedestal. There is tough love, you know. You made a very broad generalization when you spoke in terms of what parenting means: You -- one who is not a parent. If you've never experienced parenthood, you have no idea about this. Of course I - and others - can only speak for ourselves and what parenting means to us. We can't speak for parents in Third World Countries.


Nope. Not really. Ultimately, there is always a reason for those "selfless" acts. All those christian charities are doing "god's work" so they can please him and get into his heaven. Other people do nice things because it makes them feel good about themselves, perhaps it makes them feel that their life isn't that bad by comparison, or in a superstitious way they feel doing good acts adds to their good karma. Or even getting thanks for a good act, makes someone feel appreciated and liked. And who doesn't enjoy the feeling of being popular and admired?

Human beings are wired up to be social creatures, sort of like the way dogs prefer being in a dog pack and not a solitary creature. So peer pressure and the need to be accepted by ones social group is a strong drive within all of us.
Amazing how you all have the answers, and so readily. No agreement here.
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