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Old 04-08-2009, 11:07 AM
 
2,739 posts, read 4,073,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Diversity and integration don't necessarily go hand in hand. I too live in a supposedly "liberal" and "multicultural" city but the segregation and hate can be quite shocking especially coming from self-proclaimed liberals.

There are even minorities that are racist against other minorities. I assume your coming from LA where Mexican gangs are warring with the blacks.

I do believe multiculturalism and diversity are politically correct codewords for Separate but Equal.

Integration does and can work. I notice people from the military are often used to working with people of different races. This was one of the most striking things I noticed about Norfolk Virginia.
Not sure I understood your post. I did not mention "integration."

I was born and raised in CA and I'm telling you, "diversity" doesn't work, overall--that's not exclusive to gangs(?). Why do you think the state of CA, once the 8th strongest economy in the world, is currently on the brink of collapse?

When you mention, your one example of integration in Virginia, it's like a giant trophy or something? They're only WORKING together. Living and working together are two entirely different things. So tell me what you really know about diversity. How diverse is your city? How diverse is your neighborhood? How about your workplace or your office? Let's make sure that we both know what we are talking about.
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:30 AM
 
4,990 posts, read 4,453,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay100 View Post
Not sure I understood your post. I did not mention "integration."

I was born and raised in CA and I'm telling you, "diversity" doesn't work, overall--that's not exclusive to gangs(?). Why do you think the state of CA, once the 8th strongest economy in the world, is currently on the brink of collapse?
I disagree that diversity does not work at all. I have seen examples of people of different ethnic groups peacefully coexisting with each other. It is usually the case that even though there of different nationalities they have similar interests and values. And just because a neighborhood maybe made up of people of the same stock does not mean they all get along with each other either.

I mentioned integration because I have seen that people of diverse backgrounds can get along with each other. The historical problem of the US is that some groups have been and continue to be excluded even when they attempt to assimilate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay100 View Post
When you mention, your one example of integration in Virginia, it's like a giant trophy or something? They're only WORKING together. Living and working together are two entirely different things. So tell me what you really know about diversity. How diverse is your city? How diverse is your neighborhood? How about your workplace or your office? Let's make sure that we both know what we are talking about.
I have seen that people that come from a military background are often used to working with people of different races. I saw plenty of black/white families and their beautiful children in Norfolk.

Oh and I live in NYC which is one of the most diverse cities in the world if not THE most diverse. Unfortunately there is much segregation.
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Old 04-08-2009, 12:49 PM
 
2,739 posts, read 4,073,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
I disagree that diversity does not work at all. I have seen examples of people of different ethnic groups peacefully coexisting with each other. It is usually the case that even though there of different nationalities they have similar interests and values. And just because a neighborhood maybe made up of people of the same stock does not mean they all get along with each other either.

I mentioned integration because I have seen that people of diverse backgrounds can get along with each other. The historical problem of the US is that some groups have been and continue to be excluded even when they attempt to assimilate.

I have seen that people that come from a military background are often used to working with people of different races. I saw plenty of black/white families and their beautiful children in Norfolk.

Oh and I live in NYC which is one of the most diverse cities in the world if not THE most diverse. Unfortunately there is much segregation.
Look, I know you mean well and you want it to work. As a naive lil boy, I used to think it could work and we could all coexist as one great big happy melting pot. As I've said before, diversity sounds nice. In practice, however, it doesn't work. Not saying that there aren't individual instances where people get along or what have you. I know that! There are just way too many differences among us. People argue and fight all the time. They don't trust each other. They don't really like each other--as evidenced by self segregation. They can't agree on many things, which is why the CA legislature has major trouble. Crime rates are high. Chances of being a victim of road rage is high. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time, is enough to get you killed, robbed, or beaten. I've only skimmed the surface. There's so much more to tell. I really don't see how anybody on this thread or anybody reading, could keep a straight face and say they think most of diversity here in CA is beautiful. Most of you people would be sh-ittin-g bricks at having to live (or work) in some of these "diverse" cities.
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Although a lot of liberals support Multiculturalism, I would definitely not consider it a central tenet of liberalism since Multiculturalism would change the host culture sufficiently to negate a liberal society.

I support Diversity, the tolerance of non or slowly assimilating foreign cultures in a host culture, but not Multiculturalism, the intentional, socially engineered cultural mish-mashing of society (usually out of some sort of guilt over colonialism).

It's the difference between a foreign culture's right to express their culture (kebab, language, foreign dress) versus impose their culture (Sharia law in London, justifying rape as a cultural norm from the 'old country').


ABQConvict
What exactly is the host culture? I would like that defined and described. I appreciate it if you expand on that one.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:14 PM
 
4,990 posts, read 4,453,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay100 View Post
Look, I know you mean well and you want it to work. As a naive lil boy, I used to think it could work and we could all coexist as one great big happy melting pot. As I've said before, diversity sounds nice. In practice, however, it doesn't work. Not saying that there aren't individual instances where people get along or what have you. I know that! There are just way too many differences among us. People argue and fight all the time. They don't trust each other. They don't really like each other--as evidenced by self segregation. They can't agree on many things, which is why the CA legislature has major trouble. Crime rates are high. Chances of being a victim of road rage is high. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time, is enough to get you killed, robbed, or beaten. I've only skimmed the surface. There's so much more to tell. I really don't see how anybody on this thread or anybody reading, could keep a straight face and say they think most of diversity here in CA is beautiful. Most of you people would be sh-ittin-g bricks at having to live (or work) in some of these "diverse" cities.
I am not pretending to be holier than thou, I'm sure as hell no Mother Theresa. There have been times I've had bad experiences with certain people and have said I'm never going to deal with those people.

Thing is there is no way not to deal with those people. The current majority will soon be a minority. The non-Euro origin population will become more diverse than ever before. The population is very mobile and as groups become educated, job prospects open up in certain areas, different people are going to come in contact with each other.

We MUST find a peaceful way of coexisting with each other. There is no place to run or hide. Even Europe and Canada are under going issues with low population and the need for immigration.

This is an issue we can't escape and I sure as hell would not want race nuts that advocate violence to take the lead on this issue. Like it or not we HAVE to find a way to live with each other.
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:21 PM
 
8,797 posts, read 9,620,365 times
Reputation: 6684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay100 View Post
Look, I know you mean well and you want it to work. As a naive lil boy, I used to think it could work and we could all coexist as one great big happy melting pot. As I've said before, diversity sounds nice. In practice, however, it doesn't work. Not saying that there aren't individual instances where people get along or what have you. I know that! There are just way too many differences among us. People argue and fight all the time. They don't trust each other. They don't really like each other--as evidenced by self segregation. They can't agree on many things, which is why the CA legislature has major trouble. Crime rates are high. Chances of being a victim of road rage is high. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time, is enough to get you killed, robbed, or beaten. I've only skimmed the surface. There's so much more to tell. I really don't see how anybody on this thread or anybody reading, could keep a straight face and say they think most of diversity here in CA is beautiful. Most of you people would be sh-ittin-g bricks at having to live (or work) in some of these "diverse" cities.
The most culturally diverse cities in the US are among the fastest growing. When I was young and asked a guy I worked with why he came to America to live in such a crime infested ghetto , and was he afraid of all the criminals with guns? he replied where I come from the criminals have Tanks.
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Old 04-08-2009, 02:40 PM
 
3,277 posts, read 4,493,145 times
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Quote:
People argue and fight all the time. They don't trust each other. They don't really like each other
So, essentially, people don't work, and diversity is only an extension of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay100 View Post
Most of you people would be sh-ittin-g bricks at having to live (or work) in some of these "diverse" cities.
Let's conduct that experiment. Fund my apartment in San Francisco and we'll see how long I last.
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Old 04-08-2009, 03:58 PM
 
2,739 posts, read 4,073,055 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
I am not pretending to be holier than thou, I'm sure as hell no Mother Theresa. There have been times I've had bad experiences with certain people and have said I'm never going to deal with those people.

Thing is there is no way not to deal with those people. The current majority will soon be a minority. The non-Euro origin population will become more diverse than ever before. The population is very mobile and as groups become educated, job prospects open up in certain areas, different people are going to come in contact with each other.

We MUST find a peaceful way of coexisting with each other. There is no place to run or hide. Even Europe and Canada are under going issues with low population and the need for immigration.

This is an issue we can't escape and I sure as hell would not want race nuts that advocate violence to take the lead on this issue. Like it or not we HAVE to find a way to live with each other.
Have you thought that there are people who DO NOT want peace?

There are people out there who don't want what we want. Who don't value the things that we value. People who won't hesitate to use violence on you, simply for being you. That's scary. In many cases, there's nothing left to do but arm yourself or move away.

The government can do something about it but it chooses not to.
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Old 04-08-2009, 04:10 PM
 
2,739 posts, read 4,073,055 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
The most culturally diverse cities in the US are among the fastest growing. When I was young and asked a guy I worked with why he came to America to live in such a crime infested ghetto , and was he afraid of all the criminals with guns? he replied where I come from the criminals have Tanks.
And have the highest crime rates, I'll bet.

Cool, so you once knew a guy who came from a place where criminals used tanks. What I want to know is, how many of you surround yourselves (your closest friends, your neighbors, your walking buddies, your tennis partners or even so far as chat buddies) with people who come from places where criminals use tanks. Or better yet, how many of you want to immigrate to a place where criminals use tanks?

Probably ZERO! That's right a big fat O! So why come online and make ignorant comments about why diversity is such a great thing...being that most would not want to practice what they preach?
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Old 04-08-2009, 04:22 PM
 
2,739 posts, read 4,073,055 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost View Post
So, essentially, people don't work, and diversity is only an extension of this.
Let's conduct that experiment. Fund my apartment in San Francisco and we'll see how long I last.
There's a welfare department right down the street. See if they don't turn you down for speaking English and not being an immigrant. You'd probably have the food stamps snatched out of your hands soon as you walk out the door, anyway.
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