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Old 12-17-2013, 01:30 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,046,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
Which "third-rate discussion form" are you referring to?
Did you read your link?

World Sex Guide Escort Reviews: Africa

Quote:
There's a certain logic in using homicide rates as a proxy for violent crime rates because the definition of "violent crime" can vary widely from country to country whereas there isn't a whole lot of variation in the definition of "homicide."
It may seem logical at first blush but there is a distinct difference in murder rates when you don't control for the types of weapons allowed in a country. A violent against the person that might result in murder in a country with liberal gun laws, whereas in a nation with low availability of firearms such a violent act would only result in an aggregated assault. For example, the violent crime rate in Great Britain far exceeds the violent crime rate in the U.S. but has a far lower murder rate. So if the question is the propensity of violent crime, going by murder rates alone, the U.S. would be more violent than Great Britain when the opposite is the case.

Quote:
It's a working paper, not an exhaustive study of the subject.
Then one shouldn't cite a working paper, as flawed as it is notwithstanding in order to castigate others as believers in "popular culture' when more exhaustive studies that inform "popular culture" find no correlation. For example, prostitution is legal in the state of Nevada, but rapes per 100,000 are higher in Nevada that they are nationally. Second, the entire premiss is flawed when one considers the fact that almost 3/4 of all sexual assaults are committed by former or current intimate partners, acquaintances, or relatives. These are not just sex starved males looking for a way to relieve a little sexual tension.

Quote:
all I'm saying is that the question deserves more thought than a reflexive dismissal by way of constantly repeating a popular-culture platitude.
I know exactly what you are saying, it is exactly because of your [shakes head looking for a way to say this without violating the TOS] characterization of what is known through significant LEGITIMATE study as being "reflexive dismissal of popular-culture platitudes" is asinine.

There are many legitimate arguments to be made for the legalization of prostitution, none of which I would make, but this argument is just another ridiculous outside of the realm of realty libertarian attempt to find justification for their lazy(sic) fare perception about the role of government.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 86,783,990 times
Reputation: 29355
Moderator cut: personal remarks

I'm not sure I'd hang my hat on Nevada as a counterexample to the possibility that legalizing prostitution can prevent rapes. For starters, Nevada has a higher rate in every major violent crime category than the national average. Second, "prostitution is legal in Nevada" is not broadly true. It is only legal in certain counties in Nevada, and not in any of the populated areas. You have to go out of your way to avail yourself of the services of one of the 250 or so legal prostitutes operating in the state at any given time. Third, Nevada is a state of less than 3 million people that receives roughly 40 million visiting tourists per year. Does the per-capita incidence of rape (or violent crime in general) account for the fact that the state hosts an extremely disproportionate volume of out-of-state visitors? What is the per-capita incidence if one removes those committed by tourists? Does the culture of free-flowing alcohol exacerbate the problem? A simple per-capita comparison to the national average doesn't answer these questions, nor does it answer the OP's question.

If we're going to use a single state as an example, perhaps we should turn our gaze to Rhode Island instead. Thanks to their accidental experiment with de facto legalized state-wide prostitution from 2003 through 2009, we have a rare opportunity to gather and examine recent data of a sample population before and after legalization. If you don't care for the Cundiff analysis, a more thorough examination based the Rhode Island fiasco was conducted by Scott Cunningham at Baylor University and Manisha Shah of the well-noted "lazy-fare" institutions of UCLA and NBER.

No serious person would claim the Cundiff paper or the Rhode Island data settle the issue. But they should at least illustrate that reciting the same platitude dozens of times is not a sufficient response to the OP's question.

Last edited by Marka; 12-17-2013 at 09:37 AM..
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:36 AM
 
Location: FROM Dixie, but IN SoCal
3,491 posts, read 5,291,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeapple View Post
What a cold and twisted view of sexual relationships between people.
orangeapple,

My late grandfather, a circuit-riding evangelistic preacher in the early-to-mid 20th century, once told me to be careful about pointing fingers at people. Why, I asked? He told me to look down at my hand the next time I did it -- and observe the three fingers that were pointing back at me.

Please don't misunderstand -- I'm not saying your view is "cold and twisted". I am saying that what you stated is a sweeping generality; a so-called universal truth. However, it isn't universally true. Therefore it isn't entirely objective.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:38 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,046,755 times
Reputation: 14878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
I'm not sure I'd hang my hat on Nevada as a counterexample.
That is a legitimate argument, whether I agree with it or not, but it is a better methodological comparison than what you proffered previously, and that was my point.

Like I said, I don't have a dog in this fight, there are arguments of interest both pro and con but to cavalierly dismiss one side of the debate as being "popular culture" is simply intellectually dishonest.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Central Maine
2,868 posts, read 2,842,536 times
Reputation: 3976
In my HUMBLE opinion....NO. Rape is a power move more than a sexual gratification move, in my experience. You will always have those that want to control/hurt others and those that desire what they have no right to have. Yes, it might stop a SMALL portion of rapes, but I maintain, NOT the great majority.
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:31 AM
 
577 posts, read 355,473 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by DauntlessDan View Post
In my HUMBLE opinion....NO. Rape is a power move more than a sexual gratification move, in my experience. You will always have those that want to control/hurt others and those that desire what they have no right to have. Yes, it might stop a SMALL portion of rapes, but I maintain, NOT the great majority.

I agree.. Dan.. now be prepared to be chastised by the OP for coming to the conclusion that many pshychologist have for many years....
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:47 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjohnson4381 View Post
I don't even know if this is an appropriate topic, but I'm curious. I've always been strongly opposed to legal prostitution because men who pay for sex are treating women like objects. I hate that. I wouldn't want any of my friends or family members to get involved in it. And I definitely wouldn't associate with a guy that was into it (if I was aware of the fact that he was into it).

Anyway, I also have a friend who does probation/parole work. Long story short, there are apparently a lot more rapists out there then I would have originally guessed. Do you think if these rapists could pay someone to have consensual sex with them, this could be prevented? Or would it just make everything worse? I've casually looked around on the internet and it seems like there's a lot of opinions out there for both sides.
No. Rape is a hate crime, it's about domination over a victim. It has nothing to do with sex or consent.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Poshawa, Ontario
2,986 posts, read 3,154,440 times
Reputation: 5622
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjohnson4381 View Post
Do you think if these rapists could pay someone to have consensual sex with them, this could be prevented?
Prostitution is legal in Nevada (outside Clark County), Germany and the UK. Is it your belief that rape simply does not happen in these places?
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:01 PM
 
Location: DFW
6,716 posts, read 11,162,972 times
Reputation: 4972
It may only lower the rate for horny frat boys and other young men who are desperately trying to get laid. But those are just a drop in the bucket for all rape cases.
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:20 AM
 
428 posts, read 380,502 times
Reputation: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjohnson4381 View Post
I don't even know if this is an appropriate topic, but I'm curious. I've always been strongly opposed to legal prostitution because men who pay for sex are treating women like objects. I hate that. I wouldn't want any of my friends or family members to get involved in it. And I definitely wouldn't associate with a guy that was into it (if I was aware of the fact that he was into it).

Anyway, I also have a friend who does probation/parole work. Long story short, there are apparently a lot more rapists out there then I would have originally guessed. Do you think if these rapists could pay someone to have consensual sex with them, this could be prevented? Or would it just make everything worse? I've casually looked around on the internet and it seems like there's a lot of opinions out there for both sides.
Prostitutes are providing a service. Lots of jobs are service-oriented. They're getting paid, so what's to knock? That they're being treated like objects? How so? Their customers are paying for a service and getting what they paid for. Isn't that like any other job? Like when at the store, we expect the cashier to ring up our items. Is that treating them like objects?

Back to the question at hand, I'm fairly certain legalizing prostitution wouldn't lead to any noticeable decrease in rape attacks. A lot of rapists aren't sex-hungry, they're power-hungry. It's that feeling of ruthlessness and feeding off the victim's fear that gets them off. They aren't interested in consensual sex.
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