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Old 04-06-2009, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 9,138,179 times
Reputation: 9523

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Maybe I am just too cut and dried, but I see everything as a choice (other than true medical diseases or chemical imbalances).

People choose to be miserable or depressed. People choose to have their own personal vision of themselves corrupted or enhanced by others. People choose to be irrational, to live for the moment, to take all that they can as often and whenever they can - and when bad things happen they either blame themselves or blame others, looking inside, at others, or behind - "Why do I deserve this?" "It's someone else's fault that I'm..." "Why do I keep failing?" - rather than ahead and forward - "What can I do to get out of this mess?" No one takes personal responsibility for their failures any more - and the BIGGEST part of that responsibility is challenging oneself to do better, achieve more, learn from one's mistakes and not repeat them.

Religion is a sugar pill; it might help people think better about themselves or feel that they really CAN do something or ARE being watched over. All too often religion becomes just another causative factor, though, as people become wrapped in their beliefs as tightly as do drug or alcohol addicts... and the fall is just as hard. As long as one doesn't get carried away with ANY panacea, it can help to some degree, so I don't discount it completely. Moderation in all things...

I just can't scrape up sympathy for murderers or suicides as "victims". Nope, just can't do it. When I rejected a man's marriage proposal, he attempted suicide to make me feel guilty. The next day while he was "recovering", I told him to his face that he was a manipulative idiot, and if he REALLY wanted to commit suicide, I could show him the quickest and most effective way. I have seen people choose suicide to 'punish' those whom they leave behind, to get rid of their self-inflicted pain, to prove a point or (usually) because they want someone else to "Save" them. They have never been taught that each one of us saves ourselves, each one of us walks alone in our own bodies, and each one of us is responsible for ourselves. Bluntly, suicides irritate me. I'll tell them right quick - "Do it and shut up; you're taking up my air."

As for murderers - no matter their excuse - they have NO RIGHT to take away someone else's right to live, I don't care WHAT they are whimpering about or angry about or what their mother-friend-enemy-boss said or did to them. (Never mind that I used to give my kids the Bill Cosby line - "I brought you into this world - I can take you out".) I never did it and I never would do it, because I don't have that right to make that decision for someone else. Now, if THEY make the decision to take away MY rights or MY life, all bets are off, and they automatically cede their right to live to me by default. People who are depressed, angry, hurting enough to choose to take away someone ELSE's rights deserve NO consideration.

I've lost jobs, been homeless, been a single parent with no job, been unable to pay my bills, had the electricity shut off, been stalked, been fired, been hungry, been harassed at work and not, etc etc etc, so PLEASE don't tell me "Well, you just have never been that low". Sure I have. But I never have killed myself or anyone else yet. I'll choose to let myself wallow in misery and fear for a few hours, and then I choose to get off my a$$ and not let my troubles defeat me. I don't go whining to a doctor for a magic pill or to a shrink for a magic talk session or to a priest for a magic blessing - I get out and do what must be done to cure my situation. It's hard to be a grownup, especially in today's pitypoormefirst world, but it gives one much more ultimate satisfaction and contentment.

Those who murder or commit suicide ARE cowards. They CHOOSE to let things go that far. And they should be dealt with as same.
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:58 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,500,542 times
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Angela Harrison has given an interview and denies the allegations of her having an affair and leaving her husband for another man. Her husband was known to be jealous, so......in abusive relationships I wonder how many times she has been accused of having an affair. I'm not saying it isn't possible, sometimes the way to salvation is seemingly through someone else.

She became pregnant with her first child at 13. She states that she had tried to leave him on a number of occasions. DCS had something like 5 referrals. Some unfounded. One involving a minor assault on one of his children. He accepted the plan and the case was closed.

By all accounts he was an extremely controlling man. The fact that several referrals were unfounded tells me that they were not well received by most people. The fact that Angela was pregnant at 13 tells me that she probably hasn't been well received for a very long time. They live in a trailer. However, if you go to read the comments left at the newspaper articles there are those who say.....well, it is her fault. A preacher said it was also her fault for not standing by him and making sure that he got help. When she says, "I was going back tomorrow to get my kids after I got a place to stay." Someone comments, "Sure you were going back, lady."

Had she left with the children and had no place to stay, probably not enough money to eat out, and it would have been on shaky ground for a quick minute. She is still wrong.

If she had stayed and let the abuse continue, again she is wrong. We go through periods where some whacknut wants to prosecute the women that are in abusive relationships. Oddly enough when a man says he is going to kill you for leaving, he just might. Then you have Wanda Luck. Fact is women are most likely to die when leaving.

Lets say that a further investigation finds out that she was not sleeping with this guy and was not leaving her husband for another man. Some men think that if a woman leaves them it is for another man. They cannot fathom that no, she is leaving you because she does not want to be with you anymore. People will not see that. They won't accept that.

Lets say that a further investigation finds out that she was leaving him for another man. I'm sure we all have met people that jump from relationship to relationship because a new relationship has the promise of a new life. Its not smart, but hind site is always 20/20. There are patterns that women in abusive relationships fall into. People will not see that. They won't accept that. It is far easier to damn someone continuously. It is far easier for the preacher dude to make his case.

Either way, in two months people won't remember Harrison. But the people in that town will. Good thing they have counselors for the school children and the town can deal with the pain and loss. Angela will spend the rest of her life with more gossip and accusations. But the town can now try to heal. I doubt many people are going to know or understand what the cycle of violence is or care. He killed his children and then himself. He probably did have hind site and realized that he just screwed himself. He probably realized that the odds were she wasn't going to be at the last location he saw her at. This meant time and he was pretty much running out of that.

So.........a letter from Jiverly Wong has surfaced......
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Old 04-07-2009, 09:24 AM
 
6,951 posts, read 8,914,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post
Maybe I am just too cut and dried, but I see everything as a choice (other than true medical diseases or chemical imbalances).
I don't agree with every single point you made in this massive post, Granny, but this is a danged good one. Just remember, though, that some people choose to cause themselves true diseases and chemical imbalances by their behavior. Witness the way drinking too much fcrews you up, devastating what coping skills you may have, and can kill you if you use it long enough to cause a no-fooling-around disease like pancreatic cancer. It's no different if a battered child chooses to self-protect with the pre-emptive terror and hopelessness that is actively, physically neurotoxic and causes semi-medical conditions like Bipolar Disorder or Schizophrenia. When you get in close enough to really seem, it's really hard to pick apart the choices and their consequences.
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Old 04-29-2009, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,085,828 times
Reputation: 3717
Default Best wishes!

Thanks for all your thoughful posts. Good stuff; no psychologist is going to write it all down, but I think it's good that we take the time to realize what's going on in our world and what others might be dealing with. In particular, SC Granny, good points.

Take care, y'all! Love one another!
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,530 posts, read 20,094,501 times
Reputation: 22536
What is r-e-a-l-l-y surprising today is the lack of violence! The way some people are treated in the workforce today, I'm surprised some boss or supervisor isn't killed every day. When you take someone's job away from them today, you're taking away their livelihood, their means of survival.
And, today, you can be doing the best job, crossing every t, dotting every i, and if the wrong supervisor is on board, out you go! I've seen it happen, again and again, where I work.

What are the statistics? 75% of Americans are two paychecks away from being homeless? With that, if I were the President, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night, even with a half-dozen Tylenols.

Not everybody has the same stamina, the same breaking point, and once that is broken, all rationality and sanity is blown to the wind, and in effect, did they really know what they were doing, at the time?
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:00 AM
 
2,686 posts, read 3,587,195 times
Reputation: 3098
Sorry to be Mr Insensitive, but frankly too many people are emo crybabies. Too many Tough Guys/Unhinged Hens/Spoiled Kids who need to be "Understood". It goes beyond mass killings, down to thugs killing, or women like Octomom, or kids being bullies.

We as a society used to have an established pattern of right and wrong. Now that that has been labeled "discriminatory", it's down to people doing whatever. I will agree that we don't support each other as much as we should and alot of that boils down to American cultures crippling fear of "Others" and anything outside one's personal sphere....
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Old 05-01-2009, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,085,828 times
Reputation: 3717
Default A rational perspective

Both tijlover and Shizzles have some valid points. Our working population has no idea what real hard work is, or to go without that newest iPod or smart Phone version. Why, in my day (folks minds close when you say that magic phrase...)... blah blah blah.

But truthfully, we all Have to Have several "Smart" cell phones, family cars, HDTVs, laptops, iPods, and on and on. No sense of making do or tolerating the lack of some consumer toy. Our entire culture is based on rampant consumerism, and we've also shipped all the hard jobs, the dreary ones or backbreakers, overseas. Let THEM suffer physically!

Sadly, when that all tumbles down, as it is doing now and will continue to do, what will we all do? A whole bunch of jobs are but ripple-effect functions that follow along on the tails of the crazed consumer. Those jobs will never come agian, and there's too many of us. Sure, we may well see some transient "rebound", but "recovery"??? To what and how we were three years ago?

Why? Would any realistic adult consumer, if all his/her debt was cleared up magically today, just go out and re-bury themselves in fresh new debt? I doubt it. The moment's magic been broken; too much fear now.

Everyone's going to make their cars, TV, iPod and everything else LAST LONGER now. Retail sales will forever remain suppressed. We're headed into a long recession/depression, and it will just have to sort itself out.

Young folks, dreaming of a life of leisure, with Wall Street incomes, will find out that they might be able to get a job down at the plywood factory, if they're capable of actual hard work coupled with a good attitude.

I read yesterday someone's line on these forums, that he said to a friend in the mid-80s: "You've got the best job you'll ever have right now."

How true. If only we'd taken a more mature view of our resources and our burgeoning personal debt then, and put something aside, eh?

It's gonna be sorta painful from now on. If you chose to believe Obama, and that it's all gonna be good, then go for it. Spend spend spend. If you can.

For the rest of us, especially those near or after retirement, just get serious, be fiscally conservative and plant a garden. Raise chickens, like me! Enjoy life sans the vast flow of Chinese consumerist crap!

That way, you'll likely not get so suicidal and despondent. Oh, and please be sensitive and caring when talking to those poor mid-lifers who thought they'd all be living the high life by now. Sorry guys and girls.
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Old 05-03-2009, 12:20 PM
 
6,951 posts, read 8,914,517 times
Reputation: 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles View Post
Sorry to be Mr Insensitive, but frankly too many people are emo crybabies. Too many Tough Guys/Unhinged Hens/Spoiled Kids who need to be "Understood". It goes beyond mass killings, down to thugs killing, or women like Octomom, or kids being bullies.

We as a society used to have an established pattern of right and wrong. Now that that has been labeled "discriminatory", it's down to people doing whatever...
I haven't heard anyone suggest that being against murder, suicide, or suicide-by-cop is discriminatory. Is that what you're saying?
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