U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-07-2009, 12:48 PM
 
6,952 posts, read 8,893,130 times
Reputation: 7814

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyoquilter View Post
So if you are saying that everything we do is a choice, Does that mean that the people that have been shot and killed chose to step in front of the bullet? Wouldn't that absolve the person who pulled the trigger from being charged with murder? Maybe the gunman chose to pull the trigger, but the person who was hit with the bullet should have chose to step out of its path.
As a Detroiter who lost someone at my high school to a stray bullet, I know that's not true.

But I once had someone tell me with a straight face that because there are no accidents, the driver of the van that piled into my Escort and totaled it was in a "soul contract" with me. Although technically I stopped to avoid hitting the dog that ran out into the road, and she was driving with her head turned around backwards chatting with her children and didn't notice me looming up in her windshield, we CHOSE to collide.

Does anyone remember est training? Those people held that a Vietnamese baby who was born into a war zone and was doused with gasoline and torched at My Lai was "creating his own reality" and had nobody to hold responsible for it but himself. I think this is a good illustration of how big, simple ideas turn out to be wrong when you pick at them a little.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-07-2009, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Connecticut
1,461 posts, read 4,103,010 times
Reputation: 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post
Agree or no? If no, please provide a sound reason why so we can have an intelligent debate.

Personally, I believe everything we do is a choice, how we react to every situation is a choice, etc. I've yet to find evidence proving otherwise.

EDIT: I should clarify this by saying that no, as children we do not always have a choice. But as adults we do.
EDIT2: Since people are already taking this to a literal extreme, let me clarify that THIS POST IS ABOUT DECISION-MAKING, not whether or not you have the choice to make your heart beat or not. Holy ***** people.
I find the Great Debate forum to be rather explosive...lots of opinionated folks on here and you are brave to post on here...your choice, right?

I believe that people for the most part to act and react by choice, however there are those moments when we do have NO CHOICE and those moments are called desperation. Doing things because you are desperate for a resolution is not the same as choosing to do things...make sense. Here is an example which might clarify what I am trying to say:

When I lived in Maine, my ex would not work. I had a young son who needed to be fed, a mortgage to pay, food to put on the table..etc. One spring...the ex goes into the woods thinking he is going to cut some pulp..not a good choice on his part as he damn near cut his hand off. I wasn't working at the time and the bills were piling up and we had no food. I hired on with a local farmer to walk behind a tractor that was pulling a dump cart and got to toss rocks into the dump cart as I walked behind the tractor. Was it a choice...yes...but one made out of desperation.

So what I am saying is that the choices we make are driven by other issues...it is not so simple to say everything we do is driven by our own choices...not a cut and dry subject at all.

Now do you see why this got so heated? This is not a black and white subject as there are way too many variables.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2009, 01:03 PM
 
706 posts, read 3,358,924 times
Reputation: 340
Some times some folks' "choices" not much of a choice, thus such terms as -

"dillema"

"the lesser of two evils"

"between a rock and a hard place"

etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2009, 01:12 PM
 
6,952 posts, read 8,893,130 times
Reputation: 7814
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnaReed View Post
Some times some folks' "choices" not much of a choice, thus such terms as -

"dillema"

"the lesser of two evils"

"between a rock and a hard place"

etc.
True, but a lot of people don't see all the possible choices, either. Or they don't dare/know how to create their own options that would work better than either the rock or the hard place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2009, 01:21 PM
 
1,986 posts, read 3,469,438 times
Reputation: 1289
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post
Agree or no? If no, please provide a sound reason why so we can have an intelligent debate.

Personally, I believe everything we do is a choice, how we react to every situation is a choice, etc. I've yet to find evidence proving otherwise.

EDIT: I should clarify this by saying that no, as children we do not always have a choice. But as adults we do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post
Being shot is not an act on your part, so of course you do not have a choice in that matter.

The point of the original statement was about things we have control over, that we have the ability to make a choice about. Most people say at one point or another, some quite often, things like "I didn't have a choice in the matter", or "so and so made me do it", or "so and so made me angry", etc.

If you are standing face to face with a gunman and he says do this or else I will shoot you, the choice to do whatever he asked you to do or not is totally up to you. If he chooses to shoot you anyway, obviously you have no choice over that because it was not something you could have controlled. That was his choice.

We always have a choice when it is something we can control.

If someone is mental challenged, they do not control that, perhaps then they do lack the mental ability to choose what we would consider "normal" things. But of those things they are capable of making a decision about, whatever those things may be, how they choose to do them or react to them is totally up to them.
Again, the point is that of those things we can control we always have a choice. It may not be the ideal choice we would like to be able to make, but it is a choice nonetheless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post
See my post above about the mentally challenged. I agree with you. I said of those things they have control they can and do make decisions. They are not totally devoid of control, they just can't control a lot of the things we consider to be normal.

I've expressed my opinion by stating that I believe everything we have control over is a choice. A lot of people do not believe that, which is why they say things like "I have no choice but to do such and such" or "they made me do it", etc.
EVERYTHING WE DO IS A CHOICE. EVERYTHING. This is the title of this thread. You started out all inclusive, and migrated to only what we have control over.

You DENIED exception at the onset, and included exception by page 3.

Which way do you want it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2009, 01:31 PM
 
830 posts, read 2,507,648 times
Reputation: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy night View Post
EVERYTHING WE DO IS A CHOICE. EVERYTHING. This is the title of this thread. You started out all inclusive, and migrated to only what we have control over.

You DENIED exception at the onset, and included exception by page 3.

Which way do you want it?

My apologies. I didn't realize so many people were incapable of thinking without being provided explicit instructions.

"Everything we do". What does that mean to you? When someone asks you what you "did" today, do you respond, well, my heart beat xx number of times, my gal bladder did something, my lungs filled up and exhaled, my eye lids flapped, my muscles contracted...

Do you really need such explicit instruction to be able to determine what I mean by "everything we do"? Seriously?

If you "do" something, as is interpreted by any reasonably un-anal person, that means something you, making a decision, did.

I'm sorry. Next time, when I ask a question, I will prepare 10 pages of exceptions that may possibly apply, just so you don't get confused.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2009, 01:34 PM
 
2,466 posts, read 4,205,482 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy night View Post
EVERYTHING WE DO IS A CHOICE. EVERYTHING. This is the title of this thread. You started out all inclusive, and migrated to only what we have control over.

You DENIED exception at the onset, and included exception by page 3.

Which way do you want it?
Thank-you Stormy, You said the same thing I was about to say.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2009, 01:36 PM
 
830 posts, read 2,507,648 times
Reputation: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
yes, I saw that and your post on the gun man.

And what does this mean for you and your role in society? Or solving issues in society?

That's potentially a very long answer. But the short of it is that if you don't like something, then do what you can about it. Or better, do what you are willing to do about it. If you aren't willing to do anything about it, then accept it and move on. If you really want to do something about it, then quit bitching about it and work towards a solution.

We implemented this at work recently. We have weekly meetings which often turn to ***** fests. My boss and I were talking and he expressed how tired he is of hearing the constant bitching. My recommendation was to require that any bitching be followed by a proposed solution and an action plan to put that solution into place. It's worked pretty well so far.

What I am doing personally is going back to school, working on my masters in computer science because I want to expand my knowledge base. Ultimately I plan to meld my finance knowledge with my computer science knowledge for a good much greater than myself, something that will outlive me. That is just one example.

Some people might say to something like that, "Oh, I just don't have the time to go back to school." Anyone has time to go back to school, in addition to working 60-70 hours per week, as I do. It is all about choice. Because I have decided to go back to school I have also decided to give up doing other things, like maybe hanging out at bars as much, or taking less vacations, or whatever. It is all a choice, right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2009, 01:44 PM
 
830 posts, read 2,507,648 times
Reputation: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
True, but a lot of people don't see all the possible choices, either. Or they don't dare/know how to create their own options that would work better than either the rock or the hard place.

This is incredibly true!!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-07-2009, 01:46 PM
 
830 posts, read 2,507,648 times
Reputation: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connecticut Pam View Post
I find the Great Debate forum to be rather explosive...lots of opinionated folks on here and you are brave to post on here...your choice, right?

I believe that people for the most part to act and react by choice, however there are those moments when we do have NO CHOICE and those moments are called desperation. Doing things because you are desperate for a resolution is not the same as choosing to do things...make sense. Here is an example which might clarify what I am trying to say:

When I lived in Maine, my ex would not work. I had a young son who needed to be fed, a mortgage to pay, food to put on the table..etc. One spring...the ex goes into the woods thinking he is going to cut some pulp..not a good choice on his part as he damn near cut his hand off. I wasn't working at the time and the bills were piling up and we had no food. I hired on with a local farmer to walk behind a tractor that was pulling a dump cart and got to toss rocks into the dump cart as I walked behind the tractor. Was it a choice...yes...but one made out of desperation.

So what I am saying is that the choices we make are driven by other issues...it is not so simple to say everything we do is driven by our own choices...not a cut and dry subject at all.

Now do you see why this got so heated? This is not a black and white subject as there are way too many variables.

Ok, so you may have been desperate, but it was still a choice, right? Had you not made those choices certainly bad things could have happened to your family, but I would assume you've heard of people making those types of bad choices and do let bad things happen to their families.

You may not have been in a situation to make the ideal types of choices you would have liked to make, but nonetheless you did make a choice.

I am sure there could have been other choices you could have made as well, but of course hindsight is 20/20.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top