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Old 04-08-2009, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Florida
11,484 posts, read 8,219,487 times
Reputation: 9388

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I see that several of you made the choice to nit pick in order to avoid discussing the intent of the OP .
Some of you have rejected the idea that you still have choices even though circumstances may have limited the choices.
In the case of having a gun aimed at you...yes, you still have choices unless you are physically (by virtue of shock) incapable of any rational thought.
You may not like the choices available in many situations but that does not negate the fact that you have choices.
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Old 04-08-2009, 09:29 AM
 
2,465 posts, read 3,090,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbledeez View Post
The question is about individual choice. It's not about how other people's choices affect individuals. So it's not about getting shot, or laid off, or desperation.

We get to choose our actions and reactions.
Yes I agree we get to choose our actions, but we don't always get to choose our reactions. Reactions are a cause of an action and sometimes how we react to something comes by instinct. That instinct could be fear, anger, laughter, or tears.

The OP said he believes we have a choice in how we react to EVERY situation. Well not every situation we face gives us much time to think and make a choice so we act on instinct. That is why emergency personell are usually trained the way they are so when they are faced with a situation where there is no time to think and make a choice, their instincts automatically kick in and take over. So they are acting on instincts and not on choices. I'm sure if a fireman were given time to think and make a choice as to whether he should run into a burning building or not, he might choose not to. But his instincts kick in before he has time to think and make a choice.
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:12 AM
 
1,525 posts, read 2,394,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post
Agree or no? If no, please provide a sound reason why so we can have an intelligent debate.

Personally, I believe everything we do is a choice, how we react to every situation is a choice, etc. I've yet to find evidence proving otherwise.

EDIT: I should clarify this by saying that no, as children we do not always have a choice. But as adults we do.
EDIT2: Since people are already taking this to a literal extreme, let me clarify that THIS POST IS ABOUT DECISION-MAKING, not whether or not you have the choice to make your heart beat or not. Holy ***** people.
On some level your assertion is probably true. Again, in the context you probably mean. I.e. sane people in typical, day to day situations. (For example, the debate about how much an insane person is responsible, and just what defines sane has gone on for quite some time.)

Problem is this. If you are going down the path that says, "Since everything we do is a choice... people ending up with bad outcomes deserve it because it was their choice", I'm going to have to call B.S.

Why?

Because we can often only choose from the choice before us.

What?

Well sure I can "choose" to be CEO of IBM... Tah-Dah... look I'm still not the CEO of IBM.

What one would choose if any and all options were truly available, and the options one can actually choose are two different things.

So an discussion of "choice" really has to begin with the question, "What choices were actually available to the actor?"
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:15 AM
 
Location: southern california
50,332 posts, read 47,711,417 times
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the problem is not the right to make the choice we got that, the problem is so very many people are consistently making bad choices, a good definition of a loser.
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Old 04-08-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: SW Missouri
14,851 posts, read 18,057,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post
Agree or no? If no, please provide a sound reason why so we can have an intelligent debate.

Personally, I believe everything we do is a choice, how we react to every situation is a choice, etc. I've yet to find evidence proving otherwise.

EDIT: I should clarify this by saying that no, as children we do not always have a choice. But as adults we do.
EDIT2: Since people are already taking this to a literal extreme, let me clarify that THIS POST IS ABOUT DECISION-MAKING, not whether or not you have the choice to make your heart beat or not. Holy ***** people.
I agree that we do make the ultimate decision on how we react to everything. However, sometimes the choices are not so dramatically different. Often the outcome will be the same regardless of what choice WE make.

Teachings if the Kaballah cover this very thing. How we shape our world based upon the choices that we make.

20yrsinBranson
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:40 AM
 
812 posts, read 1,628,698 times
Reputation: 454
no he's wrong because choice still implies want and many times are choices are not what we would design for ourselves so we are affected by other's choices. another poster said if you don't like what you see in the mirror, it's your fault. well, a person who was in a car accident because of a drunk driver did not choose to have thier face disfigured though they did choose to drive. but many situations, there are absolutely no choices.

so choice has to be presented in context otherwise responsibility and equally irresponsiblity are not realistically placed. it's very similar to abusive parents who use the excuse that people just need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps to simply excuse their own lack of responsibility, lack of good judgement or own erroneous choices. see how that works?

i'm not saying we don't have choices or make choices but it's more comprehensive than that as no man is an island.
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Old 04-11-2009, 03:04 PM
 
603 posts, read 778,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyoquilter View Post
Yes I agree we get to choose our actions, but we don't always get to choose our reactions. Reactions are a cause of an action and sometimes how we react to something comes by instinct. That instinct could be fear, anger, laughter, or tears.

.........
Yeah, actually, we get to choose those too....reactions. You choose how to react, to a behavior, in a situation, how you handle it is your choice. Again, I'm not talking about extremes, like a burning building or someone dying, although those are choices too, I'm talking in general. Like what you say to a waittress who makes a mistake, or someone who cuts you off on the highway, or a jerk in a bar......how you handle these situations is your choice. Too often I hear people say things like "Well you MADE me do it" or "He MADE me do it". That's so wrong. You CHOSE to do it. You had a choice on how to handle it. To many people blame their own behavior on someone else.
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
7,990 posts, read 5,463,824 times
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Being someone who actually understood what he wrote..... I have to say yes.....absolutely...yes! Unfortunately, some people find it much easier to blame others when the choices they make backfire on them....or negative consequences occur due to the choices they have made. Every choice has a consequence......good or bad. We decide which choice to make....AND we are the ones who choose how to react to the consequences of those decisions/choices. Bad things can happen to us....it's up to us to decide how we're going to CHOOSE to respond to those things. Good things can happen to us.....it's our choice how we'll respond to those as well. Many things can happen to us which are beyond our control.....however, it is solely up to us to decide how we will respond to those situations. Good grief...... YES it's our choices that determine how we live our lives.
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
7,990 posts, read 5,463,824 times
Reputation: 19165
Jeez Motoman......maybe I'm just simple....but I didn't really think it was that difficult a question. Is reading comprehension the problem here? Was there some fine print stuff in there that I CHOSE to simply ignore? LOL On another thread, I made the observation that some people simply want to argue for argument's sake...... regardless of how stupid it makes them look. For cryin out loud folks! Read the original message.....slooooooowly....and caaaaaarrreeefuuully!.....Don't forget to read it right down to the very end! ROTFLOL!
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:55 PM
 
1,310 posts, read 1,863,176 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post
Agree or no? If no, please provide a sound reason why so we can have an intelligent debate.

Personally, I believe everything we do is a choice, how we react to every situation is a choice, etc. I've yet to find evidence proving otherwise.

EDIT: I should clarify this by saying that no, as children we do not always have a choice. But as adults we do.
EDIT2: Since people are already taking this to a literal extreme, let me clarify that THIS POST IS ABOUT DECISION-MAKING, not whether or not you have the choice to make your heart beat or not. Holy ***** people.
Yes, decision making is of course a choice. How we react is usually a choice but not always ; there are plenty of involuntary actions/responses we have...such as when a Bee lands on our arm -- we automatically jerk our arm away after seeing it on our arm . Or when we go from a dark place into direct sunlight -- we automatically squint our eyes. The occasions where we DO make a willful choice, can affect just ourselves and/or others directly or indirectly. As far as making good moral choices, we've been given a moral conscience to help us ascertain whether something is good or bad to do ; but we can even choose to veto that if we so choose so we can get our own way -- usually to our detriment or others detriment.
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