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Old 08-31-2009, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,470,226 times
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IMO, our most essential choice is HOW we respond to the situations and/or circumstances in our lives. EG: we have no conscious choice in regard to being born into great poverty or great wealth. Some folks for example who are born into great wealth decide to become playboys and simply squander their money away, while others born into great wealth decide to start a charitable foundation and do great good for humanity.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Greater Hartford Area
197 posts, read 337,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post
Agree or no? If no, please provide a sound reason why so we can have an intelligent debate.

Personally, I believe everything we do is a choice, how we react to every situation is a choice, etc. I've yet to find evidence proving otherwise.

EDIT: I should clarify this by saying that no, as children we do not always have a choice. But as adults we do.
EDIT2: Since people are already taking this to a literal extreme, let me clarify that THIS POST IS ABOUT DECISION-MAKING, not whether or not you have the choice to make your heart beat or not. Holy ***** people.
I tell myself this almost everyday. But tell the to the man that has been in jail for 30 year for a crime he did not commit. Did you see the movie ,The Hurricane?
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:32 PM
 
742 posts, read 1,050,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithi View Post
I tell myself this almost everyday. But tell the to the man that has been in jail for 30 year for a crime he did not commit. Did you see the movie ,The Hurricane?
if it was a movie, it must be accurately portrayed
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:08 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,671,678 times
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Everything we do is a reaction made under a certain amount of duress, and only rarely is choice involved. To conform with laws, or with social customs, or with the expectation of other, or because a pitchman made it seem a desirable thing to do. In such cases of making a choice, we almost always react according to social conformity or persuasion, rather than "doing the right thing". Only rarely do we get to truly make a choice, to do the right thing or to do the socially accepted thing. A great majority of the time, what we do is a pre-conditioned reaction to the circumstances. When we do make a choice, it is because we unconsciously predict the outcomes of different responses, and unconsciously decide which one has the most favorable outcome. Our choices are rarely conscious, as in "Should I run over that pedestrian, or stop and spill the bag of groceries on the back seat?"
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:44 AM
 
8,325 posts, read 8,605,753 times
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I agree we all have choices and one major reason people are in difficult straits in this world tends to be that they are "poor choosers". Unfortunately, its a bit more complicated than this.

1. People born to privileged backgrounds have more choices than the poor do.
2. Minorities bearing the brunt of racial discrimination may have a range of choices that is not nearly as good as those in the racial majority.
3. Choices made by dysfunctional parents and family members may limit a child's choices.
4. Sometimes people make one bad choice as a juvenile. Should the affect of that one bad choice follow them the rest of their lives?
5. Most of all, we have to consider the handicapped and the disabled. Problems like mental retardation are not the result of anyone's bad choices, they simply occur at random in the population. We have autism which can't be prevented either. Juvenile diabetes and multiple schleroris are terrible diseases that affect thousands if not millions of people. Bad lifestyles or bad choices play no role at all in who gets these diseases, yet they are very disabling. No one in their right mind, would argue that the range of choices available to these disabled people is analogous to our choices.

The problem I have with the whole "choice" argument is that it quickly becomes a justification for doing nothing for those who need assistance. I'm not a nut about this. I personally am a bit tired of society subsidizing some groups. I am not particularly tolerant, for example, of drug addicts and alcoholics. Nor, do I think many criminals can be rehabilitated.

However, its imperative that we not see this as a black and white issue. Its like a lot of things in life. Its very complicated. Some people should get our help and others probably shouldn't.
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:55 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,760,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post
Agree or no? If no, please provide a sound reason why so we can have an intelligent debate.

Personally, I believe everything we do is a choice, how we react to every situation is a choice, etc. I've yet to find evidence proving otherwise.

EDIT: I should clarify this by saying that no, as children we do not always have a choice. But as adults we do.
EDIT2: Since people are already taking this to a literal extreme, let me clarify that THIS POST IS ABOUT DECISION-MAKING, not whether or not you have the choice to make your heart beat or not. Holy ***** people.
In a strict techical sense yes it is a choice. However, there can be an argument whether I really had a choice if someone pointed a gun at my had while I am asked to do something I do not want to do. Sure, I can decide to die or live depending on what I decide to do and that is a choice.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,756 posts, read 16,470,226 times
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elamigo...the situation you referenced gives you a choice ( life or death ) in the matter. Granted, it's not one helluva choice, but nonethelees it is still a choice.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:49 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,760,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
elamigo...the situation you referenced gives you a choice ( life or death ) in the matter. Granted, it's not one helluva choice, but nonethelees it is still a choice.
I do not know why you wrote that. I said already and simply posted that some may want to argue that. I did write: In a strict techical sense yes it is a choice.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:59 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,760,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
elamigo...the situation you referenced gives you a choice ( life or death ) in the matter. Granted, it's not one helluva choice, but nonethelees it is still a choice.
However, for the sake of argument. What if I tell you that I made a choice while someone had a gun at my head and tell you it was a forced decision, not my choice?

So if it is a choice would you agree it is but not mine? If it is not mine, then not eveything you do is not necessarily your choice because it was given (forced on me) to me?

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:16 PM
 
1,525 posts, read 3,297,546 times
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To OP - The answer is mixed.

Yes - everything we do is a choice

No - We don't generally have the freedom to choose any choice we want. We are restricted to the choices available to us in the given situation. And those restrictions of choice lead to the next situation and so on. And the further down a path you get, the harder it is to jump over to another path.

This is why I try to stress to kids to choose well early in life.

So yeah, you have freedom of choice, among the lesser of sucky (or possibly good) choices available to you.

And therein lies the problem with trying to blame everyone's situation on the given individual by saying, "Everything is a choice". Often people end up where they are by taking a series of what appear lesser of two evils choices, and end up trapped in nowhere's-ville.

In short to say "There are no victims because everything is a choice" strikes me as false.

There's the choices the given individual makes, from those available, and the choices everyone else makes, and those can interact.

For example, I can set my rudder and sail on my little Sunfish sailboat... but Donald Trumps yacht can steam by and swamp me, LOL!

Bottom line, there's more to outcomes than any one individual's choices. So using "freedom of choice" to condemn all people in a bad situation is faulty because there isn't *unrestricted* freedom of choice. The choice said individual may have wished for, may not have been available, through no fault of his own.
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