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Polygamy is actually a CRIME (the law not only says you can be legally married to just one person; it also says that purporting to be married to more than one person is a felony in most states). So yes, as of now, there is authority to intrude.
Until you and your crowd take over, this is still lthe USA, where nobody has the authority to go prowling around everybody's houses to see who is sleeping with whom. Yes, the law does restrict multiple spouses, and as I said, the incidence of polygamy as a formal civil institution is virtually zero. But, as you would recall if you were paying attention, my comment was in response to a poster that said there is a significant amount of non-cult people who are "into" of the concept of polygamy. Whether or not it is legal is of importance only to those who believe there is an absolute and immutable correlation between good and legal.
Until you and your crowd take over, this is still lthe USA, where nobody has the authority to go prowling around everybody's houses to see who is sleeping with whom. Yes, the law does restrict multiple spouses, and as I said, the incidence of polygamy as a formal civil institution is virtually zero. But, as you would recall if you were paying attention, my comment was in response to a poster that said there is a significant amount of non-cult people who are "into" of the concept of polygamy. Whether or not it is legal is of importance only to those who believe there is an absolute and immutable correlation between good and legal.
I'm not one of those people...but we do need to have certain rules that we all have to abide by.
A startlingly high proportion of people are probably technically polygamous right now, but marriage records are too fragmented to find out how many "married" men are still legally married to somebody else. This is often not found out until the man dies and two wives show up at the social security office (as happened recently to a friend of mine).
And how did that work out?
So if the union is one man, 3 women are the women contracted in civil union to only the man or also to eachother. The only problem with legal polygamy (civil union) is when one or more parties want out. How will seperation of assesets, custody and child support be handled. What about SS benefits? Are they split between survivors?
It is complicated enough between two individuals, It would be interesting to see how a multiple civil union would be handled in divorce.
I often wonder how much of an issue this would be in the USA if everyone in the country had healthcare coverage no matter whether they worked or were married. Of course there would still be the next-of-kin decision-making and la de da.
jtur88: Until very recently it was illegal in most states to engage in homosexual acts and to marry outside your race. Which gave the police every right to barge in and find out who you were sleeping with. And of course less formal outfits like the KKK took it upon themselves to make both of those personal decisions into hanging offenses.
Rational argument for not allowing "consensual" adult incest?
I'll give you two...
1) the possibility of genetic defects or diseases being passed to or through any children conceived as a result of the incest
2) the complexity of family relationships making the true "consent" far more difficult
I know the difference between de-facto and de-jure, but family relationships are not civil unions. Are there certain laws that apply to family relationships (medical decisions and inheritance)? Yes. But it's not a civil union.
Not all cultures have found incest abnormal or shunned it but those who routienly practiced it showed the results. Egyptian royalty commonly involved marriages to uncles, fathers marrying daughters and siblings marrying. Within their culture it had its purpose but it promoted cronic diseases and visible signs. The elongated heads in later representations of the pharows were taken from life. It occured because of generations of inbreedeing.
This is almost extictual for some. Tribal cultures commonly encouraged marriage outside the tribal family. Where incest is prohibited it is generally looked on not only as bad but unthinkable.
In legal terms though while marriage is prohibited it is not illegal for an adult child to have sexual relations with a parent. But it is the result of grooming in the past if it was fufilled or not before adulthood, which is crippling to the family and child. Which is why it will forever be illegal to marry in an incestuors relationship in this culture.
I believe we ought to allow same sex marriage and possibly even multiple ones. But I also believe that ALL marriages as we see them now should be defined as civil unions with the rights of a marriage. They should be dissolveable as civil unions.
If a couple wishes to sanctify a marriage, the civil union is recognized by a church or faith, but that should not make it any more or less legal. If a church will not marry a same sex couple it is fine, because it deals exclusively in marriage as a religious idea. If another one is then it is also fine. Most of the opponets of non-traditional marriage are based not in legal terms but in the religious. So they may withhold a status of married to some but grant everyone the same right and responsibilities in a legal relationship.
Those who choose could marry without the civil union as well and be considered in terms of committment to be married.
Not all cultures have found incest abnormal or shunned it but those who routienly practiced it showed the results. Egyptian royalty commonly involved marriages to uncles, fathers marrying daughters and siblings marrying. Within their culture it had its purpose but it promoted cronic diseases and visible signs. The elongated heads in later representations of the pharows were taken from life. It occured because of generations of inbreedeing.
This is almost extictual for some. Tribal cultures commonly encouraged marriage outside the tribal family. Where incest is prohibited it is generally looked on not only as bad but unthinkable.
In legal terms though while marriage is prohibited it is not illegal for an adult child to have sexual relations with a parent. But it is the result of grooming in the past if it was fufilled or not before adulthood, which is crippling to the family and child. Which is why it will forever be illegal to marry in an incestuors relationship in this culture.
I believe we ought to allow same sex marriage and possibly even multiple ones. But I also believe that ALL marriages as we see them now should be defined as civil unions with the rights of a marriage. They should be dissolveable as civil unions.
If a couple wishes to sanctify a marriage, the civil union is recognized by a church or faith, but that should not make it any more or less legal. If a church will not marry a same sex couple it is fine, because it deals exclusively in marriage as a religious idea. If another one is then it is also fine. Most of the opponets of non-traditional marriage are based not in legal terms but in the religious. So they may withhold a status of married to some but grant everyone the same right and responsibilities in a legal relationship.
Those who choose could marry without the civil union as well and be considered in terms of committment to be married.
Thanks for your thoughts.
As to the part of your post I bolded, the sexual act is an actual crime in 48 out of 50 states.
I am aware that there are no statistics available. Considering the question was should it be legal? Your not going to find information if you continue to look only at that specific cult. You have to go out and look further. That would be polyamory. Oddly enough, they don't attempt to marry because that is illegal. However, if you know those who are into it, and ask them if they would do so if it was legal you will find that yes, there are those who will.
jtur88: Until very recently it was illegal in most states to engage in homosexual acts and to marry outside your race. Which gave the police every right to barge in and find out who you were sleeping with. And of course less formal outfits like the KKK took it upon themselves to make both of those personal decisions into hanging offenses.
Yes it gave the police the legal right, because legality is rather fluid. But was it ever a moral right?
Today, if the police have "probable cause" to suspect that you and your sister are doing something sexual in the privacy of the home, is it a fundamental principle of our society that there is a moral justification and a clear and compelling need to send in a Swat team to "catch you in the act" and shoot you down if you attempt to resist an officer and flee from justice, and thus have grounds for a criminal prosecution? After all, you two would be criminals, wouldn't you? And society's interests are served by incarcerating criminals for long sentences at hard labor.
Yes it gave the police the legal right, because legality is rather fluid. But was it ever a moral right?
Today, if the police have "probable cause" to suspect that you and your sister are doing something sexual in the privacy of the home, is it a fundamental principle of our society that there is a moral justification and a clear and compelling need to send in a Swat team to "catch you in the act" and thus have grounds for a criminal prosecution? After all, you two would be criminals, wouldn't you? And society's interests are served by incarcerating criminals for long sentences at hard labor.
They cannot enter a private home based on probable cause. They would have to get a warrant first.
Also...most criminals are given probation...statistically far more than the number who are incarcerated. I'd hardly call prison "hard labor" either.
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