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Old 08-16-2012, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
Reputation: 35864

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post
I don't think it is a 'lack of morals', but a lack of consequences.
I think, then, that you do not understand the meaning of the word "morals". Let's take it as a given that you and I are fundamentally moral people, and we can have a discussion as follows: Do we need to consider the consequences of our actions? What are the things that you feel inclined to do, and that you think are the right thing to do, that you do NOT do because of your fear of the consequences? Do you want to steal the property of other people, but you refrain from doing so because there are consequences? If you do, then I propose that you are not guided by morals, but instead are hounded to obedience to arbitrary laws that are imposed by authoritarian figures.

Only those who lack morals fear the consequences, which must be imposed exactly because so many people lack morals.

Last edited by jtur88; 08-16-2012 at 04:55 PM..

 
Old 08-16-2012, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 9,118,711 times
Reputation: 9523
As usual, jtur88, you take one sentence and write a treatise about it, ignoring the rest of the post. Sigh.

Consequences - both good and bad - are a result of action - both responsible and irresponsible. When there are no consequences, there is no learning curve, no reason to correct behavior, and no reason to develop morals.

How does a baby learn morals? he learns that there are consequences to his actions. How does one develop morals, even the most basic Golden Rule - "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? By suffering the consequences of doing wrong. No one is born with morals - they are learned, and if learned properly, they are a survival skill "Invading someone else's rights causes me problems or discomfort". When there are no problems or discomfort in immorality, when there are no consequences for one's actions, then there are no morals.
 
Old 08-16-2012, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post
No one is born with morals - they are learned, .
Well, we are in absolute disagreement, and we cannot discuss this anymore.

I believe people ARE born with morals hardwired into them as traits having survival value for a species of socio-cooperative animals. Without evolving them, the species would have become extinct.

Have a nice day.
 
Old 08-16-2012, 06:19 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,855 posts, read 57,874,473 times
Reputation: 29278
Today we are living in an intellectual and technological paradise and a moral and social nightmare
because the intellectual level of evolution, in its struggle to become free of the social level,
has ignored the social level's role in keeping the biological level under control.

Quote:
He states that until the end of the Victorian era, social patterns dominated the conduct of members of the American culture. In the aftermath of World War I, intellectual patterns and the scientific method acceded to that position, becoming responsible for directing the nation's goals and actions. The later occurrences of fascism are seen as an anti-intellectual struggle to return social patterns to the dominant position.
Cultures are not the source of all morals, only a limited set of morals.
Cultures can be graded and judged morally according to their contribution to the evolution of life.

A culture that supports the dominance of social values over biological values is an absolutely superior culture to one that does not, and a culture that supports the dominance of intellectual values over social values is absolutely superior to one that does not.
 
Old 08-20-2012, 12:22 PM
 
4,990 posts, read 4,455,368 times
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And thank you for your informative post jpchi60630.

Americans are in for a really rough ride.

Asian and other countries are up and coming and they're ready and willing to compete for their share of the global pie. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for too many of my fellow Americans.
 
Old 08-26-2012, 09:17 AM
 
148 posts, read 186,312 times
Reputation: 159
Default ok

kovert, u have realized something maybe only a small fraction of gen x and only now er maybe later gen y will realize too late in the game...but yet this is something previous generations saw coming long ago....we are a product of our own arrogance, stubborness and failures. the sooner my generation realizes and corrects the error of their ways, the sooner theyll figure out technology isnt the solution to lifes problems. so why is it my stupid generation is so damn twitchy trigger fingered, and yet so incapable of dealing with life, so ready to go beat up someone, but so unwilling to catch a whoopin, even though its deserved when they know theyve done wrong... pls dont say entitlement its gotta be somethin orher than that....lol. ok answers pls...
 
Old 08-27-2012, 04:06 PM
 
4,990 posts, read 4,455,368 times
Reputation: 1472
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpchi60630 View Post
kovert, u have realized something maybe only a small fraction of gen x and only now er maybe later gen y will realize too late in the game...but yet this is something previous generations saw coming long ago....we are a product of our own arrogance, stubborness and failures. the sooner my generation realizes and corrects the error of their ways, the sooner theyll figure out technology isnt the solution to lifes problems. so why is it my stupid generation is so damn twitchy trigger fingered, and yet so incapable of dealing with life, so ready to go beat up someone, but so unwilling to catch a whoopin, even though its deserved when they know theyve done wrong... pls dont say entitlement its gotta be somethin orher than that....lol. ok answers pls...
jpchi60630, I think it goes back to what I wrote about working for a Chinese American manager and the way she ran the establishment.

If you work in an environment which encourages you to be a student's friend & make them feel good then that's what you have to do if you want to keep your job.

If you work in an environment which punishes enforcing standards then that's what you will avoid if you want to keep your job.

There's not really much more than that.

And yes this process will continue to churn out generations of spoiled brats who believe the world exists to make them feel good until the system eventually collapses on itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpchi60630 View Post
ried sports, i sucked but being humbled at that taught me to focus even harder at things i was good at. it also taught me how to cope with inadequecy. i hate to use this example, but when japan had that severe earthquake and nuclear crisis, they didnt panic. when germany was bombing london in wwii it was "keep calm and carry on"... but when katrina hit the us, all hell broke loose.

although defeated in wwII, how do you think the japanese found a way to make a better quality car, better consumer electronics, better high speed rail system better etc... china and india and phillipines are now emerging markets in asia and will most definitely be forces to be reckoned with in the future or near future despite current 3rd world status.
jp, in some of my historical studies I have come across information regarding the way Jewish people were treated in different continents & by both Islamic & Christian societies and their treatment was awful.

In fact much of what we now consider racism was developed and implemented on communities of Jewish origin before they were used against non-euros. And this was over a period of centuries.

Yet despite all that somehow the Jews always managed to bounce back and became economically successful.

Japan had freakin' nukes dropped on it and it bounced back. Germany seems to once again to be at the head of the pack in Europe. I haven't studied their history in detail but I doubt colonialism was a walk in the park for China, South Korea, Taiwan & Hong Kong yet they are bouncing back.

I don't know why some groups of people can suffer epic losses and major trauma but yet somehow find some way to bounce back, strong as ever; while other groups disintegrate and deteriorate.

All I do know is I'd rather be classed with the former rather than the later.

Last edited by kovert; 08-27-2012 at 05:00 PM..
 
Old 08-27-2012, 07:24 PM
 
1,825 posts, read 1,349,812 times
Reputation: 1373
[quote=jtur88;8296918]
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaana View Post


There was a lot more alcoholism and incest and domestic violence and forced child labor in the good old days than there is now, but the kids who were raised in those households built a great nation and won the two world wars and kids since then have lost every war they went to and pist away the country. Wait till you see the blood running in the streets when the latest crop of well-loved and protected kids gets thrown into a depression.


Kids have lost every war since WWII & pissed away the country? I always thought adults were in charge of war plans???
 
Old 08-27-2012, 07:50 PM
 
1,825 posts, read 1,349,812 times
Reputation: 1373
Default Gary Johnson as leader=good

Quote:
Originally Posted by mckjanet View Post
we have no one taking a leadership role. Parents aren't leaders as they would rather be lazy and be their child's buddy. And political figures are too weak to buck the system that is programming us to be idle observers and working class drones. Currently our young generation is being pseudo-led by hollywood celebrities and sports stars


Adults have been saying the younger generation is worse for at least 500 years.
 
Old 08-27-2012, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJJG2012 View Post
Adults have been saying the younger generation is worse for at least 500 years.
Not at all true. When I was born, my dad was optimistic about the world I would grow up in, and the positive impact I would have on it. Same for his dad, when he was born.

The turning point in America came when fathers began to look at their babies, and doubted the prospects for a rosy future for their children. I believe that time came during the Vietnam war. when the US started waging wars against poor people, instead of against poverty. There was the big morality issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post

Asian and other countries are up and coming and they're ready and willing to compete for their share of the global pie.
There will be continuous wars until the end of time, as long as "morality" means competing, rather than cooperating for the pie. What has your country done to deserve the largest share of the pie, that you force othres, hungrier than your wel-fed self, to compete for it? Is it immoral for the Asians to compete for "their share" of it?

Last edited by jtur88; 08-27-2012 at 09:28 PM..
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