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Old 04-11-2009, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
Reputation: 4539

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Is the lack of morals that seems to be so present in today's world destroying our society?

I'm NOT talking about religion. I'm talking about general morals. Things like people helping each other out, people taking responsibility and being held accountable for THEIR own actions, etc. There seems to be a flood of people who don't seem to care about anyone but themselves and who absolutely refuse to accept consequences for their own behavior. How is this affecting society? What will be the effects if the trend continues?

Curious as to everyone's thoughts....

 
Old 04-11-2009, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Things like people helping each other out, people taking responsibility and being held accountable for THEIR own actions, etc. ..
Congratulations., You have just set a new city-data record for making both ends of an absolute diametric contradiction in 20 words or less.

Whom do moral people "help out", if not the ones whose own actions were not responsible?

You either hold them accountable, or you help them. Which is it? See how much logical trouble you can get into if your entire argument just skips from one trite cliche to another withut ever thinking about the implications of the kneejerk rolodex buzzwords, neatly packaged up by daytime radio commentators.

It also remains for you to convince us that "taking responsibility for yourself" is an issue of morality.

Last edited by jtur88; 04-11-2009 at 10:22 AM..
 
Old 04-11-2009, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Congratulations., You have just set a new city-data record for making both ends of an absolute diametric contradiction in 20 words or less.

Whom do moral people "help out", if not the ones whose own actions were not responsible?

You either hold them accountable, or you help them. Which is it? See how much logical trouble you can get into if your entire argument just skips from one trite cliche to another withut ever thinking about the implications of the kneejerk rolodex buzzwords, neatly packaged up by daytime radio commentators.
No you can do both.

For example, 16-year-old Suzie gets pregnant. She takes responsibility for her actions by not having an abortion and by getting a job and paying for medical care associated with pregnancy and eventually for supporting her child. She also takes responsibility by staying in school.

Her parents do the moral thing by helping her by babysitting while she is at work and school, allowing her and her child to live with them, and helping with finances if Suzie is trying. Her boyfriend also does the moral thing by getting a job and helping as well. Her boyfriend's parents also do the moral thing and help.

See how that works? Suzie is held responsible and accountable, yet her parents, her boyfriend, and her boyfriend's parents help.

Another example....John has been in prison for drugs. He wants to do better, so his brother offers him a place to stay for awhile after his release to get on his feet. His brother will boot him out on his butt if there are drugs in HIS house or if John doesn't get a job within a reasonable amount of time.

John is forced to take responsibility if he breaks the rules, yet his brother is helping him if he is trying.

A third example....Joann doesn't want to get a job because she is too lazy to work and allows the taxpayers to support her through welfare handouts. She decides to do the moral thing and does everything she can to find a job. She is taking responsibility.

The flip side is if Joann had been laid off, for example, her family or others would help her out. See how it works?

IMO, we have a moral obligation to help those who are willing to help themselves. You can do that while also expecting everyone to be accountable and responsible for their actions.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 04-11-2009 at 10:16 AM..
 
Old 04-11-2009, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
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You opened this thread for no other reason than to blabber the usual platitudes, which will soon be replaced by "stealing my hard earned money" to help people out in general. None of which have anything whatsoever to do with Morality, in the sense that it is discussed in Ethical Philosophy.
 
Old 04-11-2009, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You opened this thread for no other reason than to blabber the usual platitudes, which will soon be replaced by "stealing my hard earned money" to help people out in general. None of which have anything whatsoever to do with Morality, in the sense that it is discussed in Ethical Philosophy.
Nope...I opened this thread because quite frankly I'm sick of two growing trends:

1) people who think the world owes them something and who refuse to accept any type of responsibility for their actions - IMO it is not moral to not accept responsibility for your choices

2) people who are unwilling to help others who are actually deserving of help - IMO it is not moral to be self-centered and refuse to help
 
Old 04-11-2009, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Rocket City, U.S.A.
1,806 posts, read 4,994,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
It also remains for you to convince us that "taking responsibility for yourself" is an issue of morality.

I'd like to hear a rational argument that it isn't???

With the religion removed, I can easily take the side of AFO...I may use different wording, alternate scenarios - but similar reasoning.

I think what you may interpret as punishment is in our eyes consequence.

The division between us, jtur, may be that you think everyone is deserving no matter, whereas I feel some could prove themselves worthy and others not so much. Should one eat while the other starves? Well...before wasting, a bit of hunger might stir ambition.

I might offer this to surmise. It seems a great number of people have lost the fear to fall.

I think families and communities should care for themselves, concentrating their efforts at home to better a situation. Not to demand a Federal tab for everyone. My 'protectionism' covers children and the invalid...greatly limiting itself after that.

Philanthropists, charities, churches...local youth organizations...secular or religious offering scholarships and therapy, food and shelter - the workings we already have in place, many that go unannounced and unknown to the general public - these should be better utilized. The programs that I have donated to, will continue to, are my preferred method of assisting those in need.
 
Old 04-11-2009, 10:57 AM
 
8,649 posts, read 14,872,641 times
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I think morals are going down in this country for one reason that I heard on the news yesterday, that 12 and 13 year old kids (male and female) think it's okay to have sex at that age.

I'd like to know where they are getting these ideas from.
 
Old 04-11-2009, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,969 posts, read 13,766,418 times
Reputation: 4539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
I think morals are going down in this country for one reason that I heard on the news yesterday, that 12 and 13 year old kids (male and female) think it's okay to have sex at that age.

I'd like to know where they are getting these ideas from.
Yup...we can start them on the pill the second they get their period and then, if they get pregnant anyway, just ship them off to the abortion clinic and say "it's OK honey" and make it like it never happened. Repeat as many times as necessary.

When I was that age (and I am not that old), it was unheard of for a 13 year old to get pregnant. Sure 17 and 18 year olds did sometimes...but never 13 year olds.

Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 04-11-2009 at 11:11 AM..
 
Old 04-11-2009, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Nope...I opened this thread because quite frankly I'm sick of two growing trends:

1) people who think the world owes them something and who refuse to accept any type of responsibility for their actions - IMO it is not moral to not accept responsibility for your choices

2) people who are unwilling to help others who are actually deserving of help - IMO it is not moral to be self-centered and refuse to help
This creates a serious conundrum. If it is immoral to help some people and immoral to NOT help others, who can we trust to resolve the gray area, and place each of the seven billion inhabitants of earth on one side of the other of the line. I know that you are perfectly wiling and capable of making that decision for us all, but you can't do it all yourself. How are you at delegating authority?

So, the real moral question is, If I am to make such a judgment on a day to day basis, on which side am I to err? Grant assistance, or deny assistance? I await your guidance.
 
Old 04-11-2009, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
I think morals are going down in this country for one reason that I heard on the news yesterday, that 12 and 13 year old kids (male and female) think it's okay to have sex at that age.

I'd like to know where they are getting these ideas from.
That is not a moral issue. Morals is the differentiation between good and evil. There is nothing inherently evil about sex, (although it is often used by evil people).

Please, please, please, do not keep falling to the trap of equating morality with obedience.

(BTW, If you didn't hear that news until yesterday, you haven't been paying attention.)
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