U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-12-2009, 06:31 PM
 
41 posts, read 192,276 times
Reputation: 30

Advertisements

I'm a strong believer that we should be allowed to govern ourselves but to a certain point. After that if things get out of control and we cannot make a sensible decision then I think that a higher party/group should make that decision for us. I know that our fore-fathers died defending our freedom..but I don't think they had they had in mind people wearing shirts like "F AMERICA" to go on walking our streets.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that is I think a little goverment intervention maybe what we need in today's U.S. climate. The lack of common sense sometimes needs to be shoved down our throats.

Last edited by Reads2MUCH; 04-14-2009 at 03:33 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-12-2009, 06:42 PM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,490,175 times
Reputation: 1846
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorningCalm View Post
I'm a strong believer that we should be allowed to govern ourselves but to a certain point. After that if things get out of control and we cannot make a sensible decision then I think that a higher party/group should make that decision for us. I know that our fore-fathers died defending our freedom..but I don't think they had they had in mind people wearing shirts like "F**K AMERICA" to go on walking our streets.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that is I think a little goverment intervention maybe what we need in today's U.S. climate. The lack of common sense sometimes needs to be shoved down our throats.
Its called a social contract. We already have one.

I'm quite sure that they would have worn shirts of that nature had they been around. You would be surprised at our fore-fathers.
You might feel the need to have something shoved down your throat but, I'm all good thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2009, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
They have the wrong rights. Many people are systematically denied the right to dignity by social programs that force them to beg for either jobs or benefits. They are denied rightful access to upward mobility by a whole raft of factors, not the least of which are the credit reporting agencies, that have a profit motive for depressing credit scores, and laws that permit employers to discriminate against applicants who have a criminal record. Invasion of privacy is rampant, particular in the financial sectors. Stealing ID is child's play, and the bankers and lenders play right into their hands. Children are required to go to school, then a whole gauntlet of restrictive and invasive regulations are placed in the way of enrolment and attendance. The police are free to, and some do, record the exact whereabouts of my car every few blocks, everywhere I go. Even due process is gone, as the state has a bottomless pit of money to use to gather evidence of a defendant's guilt, but he has no resources with which to gather evidence of his innocence. I could go on and on.

Yet, we see daily the "rights" that have been retained by commerce. 99.9 percent of all contracts are never negotiated. They are written by a corporation's or landlord's legal affairs department, and the comsumer is told to sign it or hit the road. Police have the right to drive 100 mph through residential districts, to protect us from drivers with broken tail lights. Minimum-wage workers with less than a week of training can, at their discretion, strip search citizens who have legitimate business in the county court house.

The Bill of Rightes is not about rights that citizens have---it is about rights that the government does NOT have, and these are the rights that are the most broadly abused.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2009, 07:24 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,306 posts, read 9,975,609 times
Reputation: 9077
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorningCalm View Post
I'm a strong believer that we should be allowed to govern ourselves but to a certain point. After that if things get out of control and we cannot make a sensible decision then I think that a higher party/group should make that decision for us. I know that our fore-fathers died defending our freedom..but I don't think they had they had in mind people wearing shirts like "F**K AMERICA" to go on walking our streets.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that is I think a little goverment intervention maybe what we need in today's U.S. climate. The lack of common sense sometimes needs to be shoved down our throats.
Actually, I think we have too few rights. The only real imposed government restriction should be that one individual or group should not be allowed to infringe on the free agency of others (or endanger the community on the whole, i.e. national security, etc). As for the t-shirt: hey, if someone wants to be a jackass, he/she will find one way or another to do it.

The government that governs best governs least.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2009, 07:38 PM
 
Location: DFW - Coppell / Las Colinas
29,920 posts, read 34,526,470 times
Reputation: 35919
I believe our forefathers had a document that said England S**ks and said we do have rights. BTW, Ben Franklin had the copyright on the term and sold T-Shirts at the Congressional congress.

The words Government and Common Sense is a contradiction of terms
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2009, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
Well, yes, but the real contradiction is between Flow Chart and Common Sense, And what has happened in the USA is that all decisions are made on a yes/no basis by a person moving through a flow chart.

If a judge makes a common-sense decision, he gets overturned on appeal
If a school makes a common-sense decision, it loses its certification.
If the Department of Highways makes a common-sense decision, they lose their federal funding.
If a hospital makes a common-sense decision, it gets sued.
If a teacher makes a common-sense decision, he gets fired.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2009, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 43,516,050 times
Reputation: 10329
Rights? What's that? We have been losing more and more rights as the years go by, especially during the last 8 years of the bush regime dictatorship.

We are not as free of a country as most people believe. We dropped from the freest nation to 4th before the monkey bush took the ropes. Today we are the 16th freest nation behind even some previous communist USSR states.

Rights? I dont even have the right and the freedom of speech to say what I want right here. Leave the house and there is a sign everywhere telling me what I can and cant do. We have a new president who wants to take away our right to bear arms. The last dictator did take away our right to privacy by having our phones tapped without a warrant. The fat azzed pig donut munching street thug domestic terrorists wth badges will not let us exercise our right to march peacefully against this repressive govt.

Death to the govt. I dont want any govt in my life. I say a lot of people are afraid of freedom. They want their lives to be controlled, to be put into a box. Be here at 9 and leave at 5, we'll take care of you. People like that cradle-to-grave concept because it says you don't have to think too much, you don't have to worry too much, because someone else is looking out for you. People love the govt to take care of them and look after them. I dont. Pizz on them all !!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2009, 09:16 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,306 posts, read 9,975,609 times
Reputation: 9077
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Death to the govt. I dont want any govt in my life. I say a lot of people are afraid of freedom. They want their lives to be controlled, to be put into a box. Be here at 9 and leave at 5, we'll take care of you. People like that cradle-to-grave concept because it says you don't have to think too much, you don't have to worry too much, because someone else is looking out for you. People love the govt to take care of them and look after them. I dont. Pizz on them all !!!!
Well stated.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2009, 06:43 AM
 
1,967 posts, read 1,525,654 times
Reputation: 844
In some areas we have too many rights, in some areas too few. I'll give an example of one of each:

Right we shouldn't have: Right To Bear Arms.

Lets face it people, this isn't the 1800's. Guns only lead to problems. Keep firearms in the military. Don't even give them to the police. All the right-wing continues to say "I have a right to protect my family." Well you know what, if the guy threatening you doesn't have a gun, then whats the problem. People can carry tasers, mace, and other forms of non-lethal defense. Too many damn people are shot in this country every day, lots of times on accident.

Right we should have: Marijuana

Before you bash me, hear me out. Who in the hell decided that the government should be able to tell me what I can and can't put in my body. It would be like one day Congress just decided to outlaw cheese. Its ridiculous. Not to mention billions of taxpayer dollars are used to chase down and send innocent teenagers to jail, ruining their futures. And in the end, the people who want to smoke weed, are going to smoke weed, whether they buy it at the store, or from a dude on the street.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2009, 07:22 AM
 
8,240 posts, read 14,896,860 times
Reputation: 3651
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorningCalm View Post
I'm a strong believer that we should be allowed to govern ourselves but to a certain point. After that if things get out of control and we cannot make a sensible decision then I think that a higher party/group should make that decision for us. .
And who would that 'higher party' be?
You scare me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top