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Old 04-18-2009, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,803 posts, read 41,074,974 times
Reputation: 62205

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Help me think this through. What if states temporarily closed their borders to people trying to move to their state from other states, during high unemployment periods? I'm thinking of this from an economic perspective but feel free to mention other impacts. You could visit other states freely (so, I'm not suggesting guards along the border of each state) but you couldn't get permanent residency. Couldn't rent or buy a house in another state. Couldn't vote in another state. Couldn't put your kids in school in another state. Couldn't get utilities in another state. Couldn't be hired to work in another state. Couldn't buy any kind of license or permit in another state.

State residents would be able to move within the state. College students could continue to go to school where they choose but could not establish residency in the state of their college unless they were from that state when they left for college. The military would be excluded.

Which states (as in type of states) are bleeding people during high unemployment periods and who are the people they're bleeding? Is that good or bad for those states to shed those people? Which states (as in types of states) are on the receiving end during high unemployment periods? Is it good or bad for them to receive new people and does that also depend on who the newcomers are?

What would be the pros and cons of temporarily suspending interstate migration during high unemployment periods? For people living in both the receiving and losing states? For state and local government? For business?
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Old 04-18-2009, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,050 posts, read 34,639,520 times
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Not a very good idea if we actually intend to maintain the United States of America. The next step after closing borders would be a short one: from granting residency to establishing citizenship. Then comes minting currency, followed in short order by levying taxes. And then there's no more United States.
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Old 04-18-2009, 07:19 PM
 
9,895 posts, read 10,839,173 times
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Very interesting ! I am a big proponent of States rights. One could argue, that many of the states , Utah, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona could have benefitted from being able to ward off the mass exodus from Californians.
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Wyoming
9,724 posts, read 21,259,937 times
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Well, there's the U.S. Constitution of course. It would have to be scrapped.
Article IV, Section 2: The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

People leaving their bleeding states does little for the states. Short term it may eliminate some unemployment, but in the long run it lowers real estate prices, private and government income, and cuts even more jobs from the states. What poor economies need is new industrial investments to create new jobs. Without that there's no hope for financial recovery. It's too bad U.S. companies have felt the need to build factories in foreign countries. We could use those jobs now.

The states that collect the displaced can sometimes benefit, but only if their demand for workers exceeds the work force. The area I'm in has had a shortage of workers for the past few years, and the Chamber and Economic Council has been heavily recruiting in Michigan. We needed those workers and could put each one to work within a couple days.

Now Obamaconomics has cut into this area as well, reducing the need for miners, drillers, construction workers, and people to serve them. No, we don't need any more workers. Most who show up either remain unemployed (not good) or take jobs that long-time residents need.

So it all depends, but in this economic downturn, not many communities are better off with more worker bees. They need industrial investors, THEN the workers.
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Old 04-19-2009, 08:33 AM
 
20,361 posts, read 19,969,317 times
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Assuming real border protection policies were in effect (that would include the use of violence and immediate expulsion), the United States of America would cease to be what we've been since the 1770s and could kiss what our founding fathers created goodbye.

Such a scenario make for a cool "what if" mini-series, imo. Kind of like "The Stand".
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Old 04-19-2009, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,803 posts, read 41,074,974 times
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You guys all know I said temporarily during high unemployment periods, right?

If they leave while on unemployment, does the receiving state pick up the tab or do they still collect unemployment from the state they left via mail or direct deposit? If they collect from the receiving state, I would think they are a huge burden on states that would probably attract them - ones with cheaper cost of living. If they still collect from the former state, then not a burden in that regard but when their unemployment runs out, then they are a burden on the receiving state.

I wonder what percent of the people that leave their state are retirees as a percentage of the total that leave. These are people that presumably don't have a big negative impact on the receiving state because they don't burden schools and police, they aren't commuting every day on the roads and they aren't taking jobs away from natives when they move in. They are probably selling more expensive houses in the former state and buying cheaper homes in the new state. And, they do spend money in the receiving state. I would think states would like to have them during an economic downturn.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:47 PM
 
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Actaully many locals area do this by not expanding certain utilities like water ad sewer. It keeps uncontrolled growth from getting to be a problem. Its not really used to prevent peoploe moving in hardtimes tho.
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Old 04-19-2009, 04:15 PM
 
3,562 posts, read 5,234,517 times
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Well, it would definitely impact those states that profit from something like the snowbirds in Florida. The either own property in both New York (or elsewhere) and Florida or rent a property for the winter. So, it would have a negative effect on the tourist industry. Since there is a huge retirement movement, it might knock out some medical businesses.

Where I am at, we are so close to Chicago that a good deal of people commute into the city. A good deal of the business' in Illinois do business in Indiana. I think it would only be fair to say, well there goes your business in this area.


I agree it would make a great series.
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Old 04-19-2009, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Way on the outskirts of LA LA land.
3,051 posts, read 11,601,112 times
Reputation: 1967
What if this proposal became reality in the 1930s? The dust bowl migration to places like California would not have been able to take place, and the folks in the hard hit areas like Oklahoma would have likely died due to the harsh conditions there.
California might have been a bit better off, though, because there would have been at least a few less people in the state. I guess it depends on whether or not those folks contributed to the state's economy or relied upon it.

Oh yeah, one more thing. John Steinbeck's book, "The Grapes of Wrath" may have never been written, and the movies of the story may have never been made, resulting in a loss of work for lots of folks!
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Old 04-19-2009, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,104 posts, read 6,000,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavid93225 View Post
What if this proposal became reality in the 1930s? The dust bowl migration to places like California would not have been able to take place, and the folks in the hard hit areas like Oklahoma would have likely died due to the harsh conditions there.
California might have been a bit better off, though, because there would have been at least a few less people in the state. I guess it depends on whether or not those folks contributed to the state's economy or relied upon it.

Oh yeah, one more thing. John Steinbeck's book, "The Grapes of Wrath" may have never been written, and the movies of the story may have never been made, resulting in a loss of work for lots of folks!

Actually 1930's California had checkpoints at the state border to block indigent migrants at the border and discourge them from entering California. Many Central Valley towns used thugs called Sheriff's Deputies
to beat-up Okie migrants and force them to move on.
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