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Old 04-23-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,754,492 times
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Much is discussed about the poor in politics and many social issues discussions. In politics it is major topic to help the poor.

If you go to the U.S. Census Bureau you can find some different definitions they site.

Also as I have read in other sources there seems to be no universal agreement on what is being poor.

So when people discuss the issue a problem may be there may be different definitions of what is being poor to decide how to help the poor.

I do believe that many of the government definitions are designed to suit certain political leanings by the government and other organizations thus the constant argument on how to help the poor.

My question to all is, what is YOUR defnition of poor?

We may go and look at different sources but I am trying to find what is our personal definitions of what is being poor.

So, again, what is being poor to you?

What criteria do you use to classify somebody as poor?

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:38 AM
 
48,519 posts, read 80,998,062 times
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Basically i always thought it to be where people could not afford food. clothes and shelter for themselves. The governamnt seems to think its 16000 or 18000 before any aid is given.the amont of aid given seems to vary more with hwo much influence where you live can politcally get you. the worse regions in the country get less because they are i rural areas with no political pull it seems.
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Ohio
668 posts, read 1,844,152 times
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Poor is living in Apalachia and having to provide your own food by living off the land. Eating poke and water cress when its available to suppliment your food, and any other greens off the land. living in a tar paper shack, because you cant get welfare because you slip through the cracks and am not qualified!! Poor is not being able to have the amnemities, like a bathroom in the house, and having to go a hundred feet outside, to an outside toilet in the Winter time. Poor is not having proper clothes to go to School, or having clean clothes so that you can go to work, if you can find work. Poor is not being able to provide for your family and have to rely on others to support you, in your time of needs and they are many.... Thats what my idea of poor is.

May we never know or feel the pangs of hunger in our bellies, or the lonliness of not having someone, or a hand to reach out for, when we are at our lowest. May there always be someone there to help, when we need it, and share our pain, happiness and support us in our times of trials and tribulations.

Jesse
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:46 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,754,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Basically i always thought it to be where people could not afford food. clothes and shelter for themselves. The governamnt seems to think its 16000 or 18000 before any aid is given.the amont of aid given seems to vary more with hwo much influence where you live can politcally get you. the worse regions in the country get less because they are i rural areas with no political pull it seems.
If a family cannot afford food, clothes and shelter, how do you think they should be helped?

Food, clothes and shelter seem to be some starting point. Now, let me throw one. What is the amount of food someone should have in order to say he is not poor?

The reason I ask is because people do have a different idea of what they consider enough food and the type of food they should have and if not, they or somebody else may think they are poor.

The same may apply to clothes and shelter.

What do you think?

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:51 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,754,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodworkingmenace View Post
Poor is living in Apalachia and having to provide your own food by living off the land. Eating poke and water cress when its available to suppliment your food, and any other greens off the land. living in a tar paper shack, because you cant get welfare because you slip through the cracks and am not qualified!! Poor is not being able to have the amnemities, like a bathroom in the house, and having to go a hundred feet outside, to an outside toilet in the Winter time. Poor is not having proper clothes to go to School, or having clean clothes so that you can go to work, if you can find work. Poor is not being able to provide for your family and have to rely on others to support you, in your time of needs and they are many.... Thats what my idea of poor is.

May we never know or feel the pangs of hunger in our bellies, or the lonliness of not having someone, or a hand to reach out for, when we are at our lowest. May there always be someone there to help, when we need it, and share our pain, happiness and support us in our times of trials and tribulations.

Jesse
Jesse that is some good information, thanks. The situation you provide is not one I want to live in. Sorry you are in those conditions. Have you been in this situation all your life or not?

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 04-23-2009, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
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If a person or family lives in constant risk of harm, being unable to reasonably obtain the money or otherwise provide the resources necessary for the basic necessities of sustained, health, safety, comfort and dignity.

We could, perhaps, go to the founders, who held as self-evident that the Creators endowed us with a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and poverty is a condition in which, for lack of an arbitrary man-made medium of exchange, one is denied those rights.

For those of you who say "one can work"---how do you account for the fact that there are entire nations on earth, in which nearly every family lives in a poverty that no amount of work can redress?

I cannot stress dignity enough. Of all the things you can be systematically stripped of by an adversarial socio-economic structure, the loss of dignity is the one most likely to make one feel poverty. And dignity is relative, in the context of your community.

Last edited by jtur88; 04-23-2009 at 01:20 PM..
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:11 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,754,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
If a person or family lives in constant risk of harm, being unable to reasonably obtain the money or otherwise provide the resources necessary for the basic necessities of sustained, health, safety, comfort and dignity.

We could, perhaps, go to the founders, who held as self-evident that the Creators endowed us with a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and poverty is a condition in which, for lack of an arbitrary man-made medium of exchange, one is denied those rights.

For those of you who say "one can work"---how do you account for the fact that there are entire nations on earth, in which nearly every family lives in a poverty that no amount of work can redress?

I cannot stress dignity enough. Of all the things you can be systematically stripped of by an adversarial socio-economic structure, the loss of dignity is the one most likely to make one feel poverty. And dignity is relative, in the context of your community.
Those are very good points. One thing I would bring up. In principle I agree but in order to come up with a more tangible view, how would you quantify some of those things?
This is what I mean. I believe we all do have some degree of risk in our lives. What to you is the level of risk in order to say somebody is poor?
Another one that is difficult to clarify, what is happiness? We have the right to pursue happines but it is not an assured thing you can have it, am I correct? How can you make sure someone is happy?

The one you highligted is a good one, dignity? How does someone has to have to have dignity.

I think most of us may agree with what you described are general principles but the problem we may face is that people do have so many different views of what those things are and how to solve them.

Do you have some specific views as to how this principles apply to rate someone as poor?

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
7,091 posts, read 10,486,058 times
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I always thought of it as if you don't have your basic needs met, or on a consistent basis, you are in poverty. If you are at risk of death in the near future because of the severe lack of basic needs, it's destitution. Poor is different, as being able to just exceed your basic needs with your work product...but some people meeting their huge house and fixed expenses makes them almost as "poor" as those who are living in a barely livable domicile scraping by on food...I'd rather classify it as a family meeting their basic needs at the bare minimum. The levels are nothing you can really define a set value for, as each country, region, city it's different.
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
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Like everything else, there are gray areas.

If you'll reread my first prargraph, everyone faces risk, but the poor have no resources to mitigate it. The poor live their lives in fear, but money can buy off a lot of risks, like a blown-off roof or an abcessed tooth.


You'll have to decide for yourself what happiness is. “Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a yacht big enough to pull up right alongside it.” ---David Lee Roth.

I don't know how to rate someone as poor, any better than I can explain principles of how to rate some as wise. But I know one when I see one. Usually by the look in their eye.
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Old 04-23-2009, 03:15 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,754,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subsound View Post
I always thought of it as if you don't have your basic needs met, or on a consistent basis, you are in poverty. If you are at risk of death in the near future because of the severe lack of basic needs, it's destitution. Poor is different, as being able to just exceed your basic needs with your work product...but some people meeting their huge house and fixed expenses makes them almost as "poor" as those who are living in a barely livable domicile scraping by on food...I'd rather classify it as a family meeting their basic needs at the bare minimum. The levels are nothing you can really define a set value for, as each country, region, city it's different.
That is a very good point. Two people at different income brackets may have the same stressful situation in making ends meet.

What in your opinion are the criteria to meet basic needs?

The reason I started this thread if because I see in some forums people discussing the poverty issue, whether the gap between rich and poor is widening or what programs we should have to help the poor and other related topic around the poor. I get this impression that even though we are all discussing poverty issues I am not sure we all have the same picture in mind.

I agree that poverty may be relative to a country and culture based in general expectations in those areas.

Which brings up another question then. On what area in hour country should our government base who is poor? New York, Los Angeles, Plano in Texas?

You have a great day?
El Amigo
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