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Old 04-29-2009, 03:58 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,938,535 times
Reputation: 3848

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
"Bermudez says bullies at school pushed Jaheem over the edge. He complained about being called gay, ugly and "the virgin" because he was from the Virgin Islands, she said."

Just how do we hold a principal or a school administrator responsible for making sure that no 11-year-old is called a virgin?

I've lost track of who thinks what, here, because everybody keeps commenting on single lines out of context.

Greatday, I do know how much bullying goes on. The point is, any genuine effort to combat real bullying would ignore the kinds of casual taunting that led to Jajeem's exasperation.

My position, just to clarify it, is that it would be impossible to formulate and effectively police a set of rules that would reduce to zero the risk that a child like Jaheem would commit suicide over being called a virgin. Unless the rules were so rigid and all-encompassing that every person with the normal maturity of an 11-year-old would be guilty by default.
You are twisting the facts and trivializing what happened to this student. He wasn't just called a virgin once, or twice, or five times, or in a private conversation. He was subjected to a constant and escalating barrage of public humiliation over a long period of time, by a number of individuals, whose unmistakable intent was to destroy their classmate -- not just embarrass or mock him on an isolated occasion, but to destroy him. It is quite doable to formulate and police an effective set of rules that would substantially reduce this kind of conduct without gagging students in casual conversation.

Moreover, your suggestion that schools shouldn't do anything about bullying because they can't eliminate suicides completely is disingenuous. Let's look outside the school for a minute. The law cannot provide a remedy for absolutely every wrong. Does that mean law should be abolished? Society cannot possibly eliminate or punish all conduct that can conceivably lead to someone's death. Does that mean we should stop trying? Should we legalize all forms of homicide, assault and other abuse simply because we don't have a perfect way to reduce its incidence to zero?
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
The law cannot provide a remedy for absolutely every wrong. Does that mean law should be abolished? Society cannot possibly eliminate or punish all conduct that can conceivably lead to someone's death. Does that mean we should stop trying? Should we legalize all forms of homicide, assault and other abuse simply because we don't have a perfect way to reduce its incidence to zero?
Of course not. But the law should concentrate its attack on the more egregious forms of antisocial behavior, because in the long run, more aggregate harm will be done by highly conspicuous and organized bullies than by a rag tag bunch of outliers who poke fun at a kid who comes from an island with a name that Beavis and Butthead would have lauthed at.

Which is exactly why the police spend more time working homicide cases than jaywalking cases (or at least, ought to).
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:30 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
Reputation: 47450
lots of this goes on and is covered up, it is only bek he is dead that is being brought up as an issue. k12 a social disaster, voucher sooner the better.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
The law cannot provide a remedy for absolutely every wrong. Does that mean law should be abolished? Society cannot possibly eliminate or punish all conduct that can conceivably lead to someone's death. Does that mean we should stop trying? Should we legalize all forms of homicide, assault and other abuse simply because we don't have a perfect way to reduce its incidence to zero?
Of course not. But the law should concentrate its attack on the more egregious forms of antisocial behavior, because in the long run, more aggregate harm will be done by highly conspicuous and organized bullies than by a rag tag bunch of outliers who poke fun at a kid who comes from an island with a name that Beavis and Butthead would have lauthed at.

Which is exactly why the police spend more time working homicide cases than jaywalking cases (or at least, ought to).

The sad truth is, just like in the war on drugs, the REAL culprits are operating with immunity, while the jails fill up with the small fish who are easy to catch and convict. One single sensationalized anecdotal incident does nothing at all to focus the public's attention on what is actually a crisis in our schools. In fact, it distracts us, to the degree that many readers of this news report are falsely led to believe that this was an example of the worst of bullydom. There are 11-year-olds who are being gang-raped by bullies.


Bullying is a problen of global proporations, not just in the US. A London architectural firm surveyed students recently, to ask them what they considered important in the design of a school. The third most popular answer was "fewer places for bullies to hide".

A Somali teenaged girl, who had spend her life in Mogadishu and then in a refugee camp in Sudan before finally getting settled in Atlanta, told a reporter "The cruelest place I've ever been is High School".

Last edited by jtur88; 04-29-2009 at 06:44 PM..
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Old 04-29-2009, 11:06 PM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,490,175 times
Reputation: 1846
rag tag bunch of outliers that poke fun


You do not have to worry about anybody becoming distracted. In fact, that distraction is already evident.
Its the parents responsibility, it is the child's responsibility, there's no father, too many people get trophies, its the loss of the valedictorian, physical is wrong verbal is ok, its a part of hierarchy, if people focus on this then they will stop paying attention to the bigger problems, its correcting those who live outside of societies norms, become more appalled at 11 year old's being gang raped.

Yeah, no distraction going on here. Nope. Not at all.

FYI, the name calling that nailed him the hardest was being called gay. He wasn't sure what that meant but he stated he wanted them to stop.
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Old 04-30-2009, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Mississauga
1,575 posts, read 1,707,506 times
Reputation: 304
Kids pick up on effeminate boys even at a young age. Many of them are exposed to the fact that society, their parents and extended family do not support the idea of a more effeminate male and that the macho male is the ideal, it is the norm and god forbid you behave outside the established norm. Girls behave this way and boys behave that way. This pressure on its own is overwhelming aside from dealing with the fact that a bunch of neanderthal pinhead kids are taunting and making fun of your every move and everything you say. These bullies, always in need of some fuel for the fire also pick up on the signals that boys are supposed to act, behave and speak in a conforming and masculine way, use this as encouragement to torment. To simply say the bullied effeminate boy is not strong enough to cope with this kind of pressure is ridiculous. He is a kid, and to a kid this type of pressure is probably the greatest stress ANY child will have to face and that is your peers not accepting you for reasons you don't understand other than that you are different and you don't know why. My heart bleeds for this boy! and for all the other kids who have to deal with this day after day and society fails them, religion (and interpretation of religion) fails them and no doubt even the school system and family fails them.


I'm wondering how many school officials are trained to deal with this kind of thing and are these officials themselves discouraging bullying behaviour due to non-conformance of gender identity and roles, or because of their own deep seeded discriminatory feelings on gender identity issues, they will take a more indifferent attitude. In other words the kid is a little sissy who will probably be a f*g so let it be.

It just goes to show that intolerance of differences must be addressed in all levels of society. Kids pick up on intolerace very young and they are like little sponges, what are we going to fill them with? Well they aren't born that way, so an 11 year old kid is being raised the wrong way and is choosing to be an effeminate sissy as opposed to perhaps the kid is just a kid and was born that way, his behaviour and mannerisms just part of what and who he really is and it is inate and it is ok. I think the message should be it is OK!

Last edited by mississauga75; 04-30-2009 at 01:32 AM..
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Old 04-30-2009, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
2,290 posts, read 4,946,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocean2026 View Post
My bullied son's last day on Earth - CNN.com

sad story the parents complained 7-8 times.

The kids responsible should be lined up and beaten to a pulp in front of their parents.

The administrators if guilty should be fired.
This may be a minor detail, but this occurred in Dekalb County, Georgia; not DeKalb, Illinois.

That said, if the taunting and mockery and insults were brought to the attention of the adults in charge, and nothing was done about it, then the punishments, firings, and lawsuits should begin immediately.
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
16,472 posts, read 20,002,503 times
Reputation: 22380
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Excellent post.

The huge increase in teen suicides in recent decades is not because there are more bullies (there aren't). It because there are more kids who are not taught coping skills.
But, these suicides will do more to put in place some strict anti-bullying policing in schools than coping. You could look at them as martyrs for a good cause, putting an end to this horrific abuse, once and for all.

I was bullied in shool, and remember shaking like a leaf everytime I entered that school every morning. I have never attended one of their high school reunions, fearful I couldn't resist bringing along an AK-47 and using it. The scars are very hard to heal.

They should prepare these bullies for the real world by arresting them and throwing them in jail, for down the road, that's what will happen to them if they assault someone.

One reason this victim might have been labeled Gay is because of his culture. In some cultures, men are more in touch with their feminine sides. I have had a Mexican living with me for 10 years and we've gone out, occasionally, to a bar to have a couple beers. One time we went out, someone sitting next to me asked me if my friend was Gay. Nothing could be furthur from the truth!
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:21 AM
 
50 posts, read 266,686 times
Reputation: 47
schools shoudl probably spend more time tellign kids about how insecurity isnt good rather than some of these other non-sense subjects

Teach those idjits about life and self-esteem. I had to read books on my own to find out about that. Teach them that whenever they bully someone, that shows their own insecurity. That if they have to humilate somebody else to make themselves look good in front of some weak female, and some ***** ass friends, that obviously they have self-esteem issues themselves. If they are so great and popular, why they have to waste time picking on someone who may be not as popular than them? Guys like that would get their **** split in these days by me, and anyone in middle or high school can say I didnt hesitate to do it.

When they get to 11th grade and up, the non-sense usually stops. But I know my middle school years were the harshest. I had to talk with people myself just to get through it, but I did.

Calling him gay? HA! Now I know, most of those straight looking boys in school are probably sucking dick and getting ****ed in the ass, or vice versa to all those kids they called gay. All it is, is a way to push off their insecurites to someone else, because they like that and wish they could be like that! ****ing **** man...One of these days I'd like to have a day inside a middle school class and put those knuckleheads in their places.

Even now, Im not afraid to put those same adults (kids) where they belong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
The same game is played at the adult level, office politics, because even though people actually graduate high school they can't get over it. The only trickle down anything that has ever worked.
exactly...thats why when the first time I worked at a bank and real estate office, I could not ****ing believe how many 30 and 40 year old so-called professionals were carrying on like silly school kids. The gossip and nit-picking, the 'clique'.

People never really change. Thats why its so important during those years to establish an identity cause it builds who you will be for your adult life. If youre a childish, gossipy girl..you'll do the same at work and people will despise you. If you're a pricky man, you will be the same in your career and you will be despised by everyone around you at work.

Last edited by JoeyR; 05-01-2009 at 12:40 AM..
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Old 05-02-2009, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,964 posts, read 98,795,031 times
Reputation: 31376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
Bullying is not what I'd call a one-in-a-million event.
Nor is suicide.
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