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Old 04-24-2009, 09:55 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,330 posts, read 19,022,377 times
Reputation: 18436

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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I'm glad your school is working for you.
I had the exact opposite experience. One of my daughters was bullied unmercifully in a catholic school from kindergarten thru fourth grade. We talked, we met with the teachers, I talked with the girls parents. The only advice I was given was that my dd needed to stand up for herself and besides, the bully had a 'bad homelife'.
Now all of my children go to public schools and they actually take bullying very seriously. But then, they had a spate of suicides and connection with a mass murderer to propel them into it.
I'm surprised that school didn't kick that bully out of the school. Such behavior usually isn't tolerated. So the public school is working? I wasn't clear about this.

I didn't mention the Catholic school to promote them, just to say that my daughter did well at this particular school. It of course is not without its problems, but for her it works. There are fine public schools too. Just that this one near our house wasn't one of them.
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 3,451,419 times
Reputation: 1931
The schools have a legal responsibility to provide a safe environment for students.

To those who basically are saying the victims need to suck it up, have you ever read Lord of the Flies? Is that really how you think the world should be? If you are ever robbed or mugged or raped, you'd better not call the police. Just suck it up and learn some coping skills.
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:11 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,035,044 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
I'm surprised that school didn't kick that bully out of the school. Such behavior usually isn't tolerated. So the public school is working? I wasn't clear about this.

I didn't mention the Catholic school to promote them, just to say that my daughter did well at this particular school. It of course is not without its problems, but for her it works. There are fine public schools too. Just that this one near our house wasn't one of them.
Yes, the catholic school we went to was more interested in retaining tuition at that time.
But really, the point is that its OK for parents to try alternatives. Just because one school didn't work, doesn't mean that others won't as well.
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
And, you know that part, that I picked apart, is exactly what I agree with. The comparison is apples and oranges, not even close, not in the same ball park etc. So, I had to.

.
Yes, one kid dying needlessly is apples, and 25,000 kids dying needlessly is oranges. You're right about one thing, at least. It's not even in the same ballpark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanman13 View Post
The schools have a legal responsibility to provide a safe environment for students. . . . . Just suck it up and learn some coping skills.
The school DID provide a safe environment. He couldn't hang himself there.

Who needs coping skills, when we can blame somebody else when somebody can't cope?
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:45 AM
 
89 posts, read 208,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
My school system has a great anti bullying program. They are on it immediately, and they do it without 'fingering' the victim.
My own daughter was a victim of bullying, and the first time I spoke to the guidance counselor about it - it ended. They had the boy and his parents in the office that day. He had in school suspension for two weeks. He doesn't bother my daughter or any other girls anymore.
It can be done.

There is this ridiculous mentality that bullying is a right of passage, that the victim should either 'laugh it off' or 'suck it up'. As for the bully? Well, kids will be kids.
Wrong. Why foster an environment of fear, of victimization? Why in the past have bullies been protected from their own actions? Is it because school teachers/administrators prefer to be aligned with the 'strong' students?

I remember reading a story about a girl who committed suicide in Yankton SD. She was taunted, teased and ostracized. Why? No reason -- she was shy, she didn't have friends to stick up for her and her family moved to Yankton, they hadn't been there for generations. And the administration at the school? I believe their responses was simply kids will be kids, and besides all the bullies came from 'good families' and no doubt they will settle down with time.
Eventually this girl killed herself. And what did the bullies do? Did they feel any remorse? No. The night of her funeral several of them drove to her parents home and heckled them from the street. That is the mentality of bullies today. That is what is different from placing a 'kick me' sign on someones back to what is going on in todays schools.
It needs to be eradicated.
Great post. I think it begins at the top--if the principle has a no-tolerance approach to bullying, the teachers and students will have the same attitude and know it will not be tolerated. The parents will understand as well and perhaps work harder to teach their children respect for others.

I know of no incidents of bullying at my child's public elementary school, and I credit the principal. Our school has peer mediation, so disputes among students are solved with the help of other kids at school. It's a real honor to be selected to the peer review group, and the children exert a form of "good peer pressure."

However, I hear stories about bullying all the time, and people don't take it seriously, considering it a rite of passage. What happened to this child is a tragedy and a wake-up call.

Bullying of any sort should not be tolerated in our schools.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 1,228,861 times
Reputation: 558
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Uh-huh.
We cannot stop the deaths of starving children, children killed in wars or tribal conflicts, the lack of clean drinking water. Not because we don't care, but because these children live in countries/areas that are controlled by despots that really don't want to change the status quo. Do you know how many times aid organizations attempted to get food to starving children in North Korea only to have the food stolen and given to the army instead?
But this case, this kid and all of the others like him -- this could be stopped. This is within our ability to change.
I don't want to hijack this thread but I have to make a point here. The kids I am referring to are not the ones who die in wars and conflicts and they are not in china north Korea or Iran. These children are in countries you can freely go and visit, but you don't want to b/c its the 3rd world. They die from starvation, dehydration, or treatable diseases such as malaria. There are aid workers in these places trying to make a difference but they do no get enough support. Please do not think we cannot do anything to help them, we just choose not to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
What in God's name are you talking about? Yes there are kids around the world who die under atrocious circumstances. This doesn't mean however that one kid, ANY KID, here in this country who dies for whatever reason, should be ignored because their personal circumstances were not as dire. Unbelievable the rationale you use here.

Any kid who dies prematurely for whatever reason is a tragic occurrence.

Get real.
First I am not saying its not a tragedy, I am saying there are BIGGER tragedies that get no attention whatsoever.

I think you missed my first post when I quoted Stalin: "The death of one is a Tragedy, the death of a million is just a statistic." I paraphrased and used 25,000 because thats what UNICEF estimates die EVERY DAY.

My point is one kid dies in Illinois, we all feel sad and say sorry for the family. We hear that 25,000 die and we do not even bat an eye. Why does the one kid get national attention and the 25,000 get nothing? My guess is because we do not get to interview the family or see photos of these children, its out of sight out of mind.

Last edited by ulnevrwalkalone; 04-24-2009 at 11:02 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:03 AM
 
6,944 posts, read 8,878,222 times
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The school was "working diligently to provide a safe and nurturing environment"? In what possible sense? My God, in these post-Columbine years they expel kids for having hairpins in their pockets because they might be used as weapons, but with my own eyes I've seen teachers join in on the fun when a kid is getting harassed by other kids. If every kid who razzed another kid more than once got suspended for three days with full loss of credit, that would be a start. If every teacher who allowed it got fired, that would be great.

The school system we have in this country is useless, I swear. The kids who graduate at all are likely to be illiterate and innumerate, and they learn every day they attend how to victimize each other. What is my tax money going for?
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:13 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,491,128 times
Reputation: 1846
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Yes, one kid dying needlessly is apples, and 25,000 kids dying needlessly is oranges. You're right about one thing, at least. It's not even in the same ballpark.



The school DID provide a safe environment. He couldn't hang himself there.

Who needs coping skills, when we can blame somebody else when somebody can't cope?

No, its not in the same ball park. Do not even make the comparison of x amount of children that are dying because they don't have enough water to this. Its not even close. But he was absolutely right, I give you a week. Nobody will remember this child's name. I give you 3 days, maybe 5 and another atrocity will surface.

In fact, recall from memory (as if we don't have google or pull up whatever post or I trust anyone to do it) the names of the 5 children that were killed in a domestic battle dispute where the mother supposedly went off with another man. Recall the name of the woman that had eight babies. Without looking. And if you do, who's to say that you didn't cheat? So, there we are.


My favorite. Remember the pope/condom thread? How was that cured again? No, bullying vs. no water, and HIV through pregnancy. Hands down. Either way, you don't care. You do not care.

Watch how many minimize their contribution. Watch how many say, well it sure as heck had nothing to do with me and my beliefs. It must be somebody elses fault. And it usually comes from the same group that pontificate on whose responsibility it was. Gawd forbid somebody check themselves. It's A-OK to tell someone at what age to do what, but, heck that's what we call decency.

The only trickle down economy that works is crap: if it is not spewing from those who hate then it is a mere trickle from the adults at large. A Rose by any other name...

You know this is true.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:17 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,491,128 times
Reputation: 1846
I just saw that you were actually compassionate in another thread. So, I know you have that. Don't be trying me.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:52 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,035,044 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
I don't want to hijack this thread but I have to make a point here. The kids I am referring to are not the ones who die in wars and conflicts and they are not in china north Korea or Iran. These children are in countries you can freely go and visit, but you don't want to b/c its the 3rd world. They die from starvation, dehydration, or treatable diseases such as malaria. There are aid workers in these places trying to make a difference but they do no get enough support. Please do not think we cannot do anything to help them, we just choose not to.

I'm not going to downplay childrens deaths due to negligence, poverty or politics. It is horrible, but the reality is that there is not one hell of a lot we can do about it. We can donate money, and hope that the aid agency doesn't skim off the top of donations and/or has to use that money to bribe local officials. We can donate our time, but really how many of us are able to do that? How many average americans can take a leave of abscence from their jobs to volunteer in a third world country for several weeks or months?
But in this instance, with bullying there is something we can all do about it. We can stop it, we are in control of this situation. That is the difference.
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