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Old 04-28-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Sherwood, OR
663 posts, read 1,606,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekend Traveler View Post
Wouldn't the world be better off with 3 billion people than 6 billion?
Yes, it probably would......assuming you could selectively pick the 3 billion to go. I have two people in mind to start the list.
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Old 04-28-2009, 10:45 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,505,876 times
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It's worth considering that this particular flu is most deadly for those in the prime of their lives. So, what would happen if a major pandemic devastated the most productive members of our population? We'd be left with the elderly and the young, and few healthy caregivers. Would that be a good thing?
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:51 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,422 posts, read 16,691,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoastee View Post
Yes, it probably would......assuming you could selectively pick the 3 billion to go. I have two people in mind to start the list.
This is where the seperation between reality and morality comes in. Reality is we could easily lose at least that many. Where you see continuing famine and disease its because the resources aren't there to support the living. Same as when massive climatic changes wiped out huge swaths of species in the past. Its how things are.

But the humanity of it all is horrendous. Watch children die and see the way the destruction of their society strips away the humanity and we are truely seeing our future. We don't want to. We can't look at both the practical and the human at the same time. They are a contradiction. So we say *jokingly* that as long as its not us. But humor has a deadly seriouls reason to exist. It is the way to difuse the emotional ground where we can't go.

Swine flu isn't going to be the pandemic that they speak of in terms of the black plague. It is really one of the kinds of diseases that were quite normal in the world before we decided we could change things. When something else that does wipe out masses of people comes along it will be too late to tell jokes anymore.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:01 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,422 posts, read 16,691,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
They were the lucky ones though. There were also many small towns and villages that were completely wiped out by the plague because nobody had developed any of the natural defenses against diseases. Urban populations usually create pandemic diseases but the ones who survive the disease biologically speaking are much stronger than those who were able to escape it. Think about the Natives in the New World and their experience with small pox and other diseases spawned in Europe. It is unknown how many actually died from exposure to European diseases but its estimated in the millions. Basically just because you live in rural small towns does not necessarily make you any safer. But I am referring to real diseases, swine flu is a joke like SARS was.
This is true. The areas directly along the trade routes were the first to be decimated. The ports were the next. From there the more crowded the place the faster it proceeded.

Today we protect ourselves so carefully from germs and dirt and minor illnesses that we are overall a lot less able to survive major disease. A cold will not kill you but will ramp up the immune system faster than all the vitamines in the world. We are shutting out the natural way of doing things in our hygenic world and will in the end pay for it.

But its very true that those who survived were stronger in both cases. In Europe, it changed the world. The pesants were terribly hard hit, but those who did survive were not only valued but had put a value on themselves. It ended serfdome since there were not enough serfs anymore and there was reason to offer pay and get them from your neighbor.

In a sense this is how nature works. The strong survive. They go on to breed more survivors. Hard solid fact. Its not the individual who matters but the group. I hate to think how many of us will pass on to the next life when something our science can't save us from comes along since we've made an artifical reality that only works when nature allows it to.

Not even getting into how much the sheer will to survive matters, something else we've encased in feather pillows in our society.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Orlando
8,221 posts, read 10,950,653 times
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Would a fundamentalist say this is Gods wrath for those that eat pork...lol reminds me of what they said about AIDS.
I think you will find this goes the way of the bird flu something for the press to talk about and incite fear in people. As always wash your hands regularly when you touch door knobs and things the public comes into contact with. keep your fingers away from your face. Eat well avoid fast food (not sure why that stuff is still called food) ... drop the carbonated beverages ( lots of squirming on that one) bee happy, keep stress low, and common sense high.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:30 AM
 
6,952 posts, read 8,881,411 times
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A real drawback to living in a wealthy country with excellent healthcare available is that you wind up with a high proportion of elderly and invalids, and a low birth rate. The drawback to living in a poorer country like Brazil or Cote D'Ivoire is that a lot of the energetic young people are HIV-positive. Everyone has different vulnerabilities.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
A real drawback to living in a wealthy country with excellent healthcare available is that you wind up with a high proportion of elderly and invalids, and a low birth rate. The drawback to living in a poorer country like Brazil or Cote D'Ivoire is that a lot of the energetic young people are HIV-positive. Everyone has different vulnerabilities.
Your point may be valid, but you found a very odd way to make it. The top 47 countries in the world in HIV rate are all in Africa or the Caribbean region. Countries outside that geographical zone, although very poor, do not have high HIV rates. In fact the HIV rate in Brazil and the USA are almost the same, both ranking in the 60s among all countries. Many very poor countries have HIV rates lower than the USA and Brazil.

It appears that you have centered your focus on HIV, but don't really know a great deal about it, which places the authenticity of your premise in some doubt.
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Old 04-29-2009, 09:43 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 4,562,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ulnevrwalkalone View Post
hey a religious person saying something ludicrous, what are the odds???

if he'd suggested spreading it around anfield on match day maybe it wouldn't be that ludicrous!
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,066,557 times
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Default and The Great God of Equality Descended....

A basic-level course in population dynamics, then a wander-in to a class in basic ecology, would tell you that we are waaaayyy to populous on this planet for our own good, and certainly we're ignorant (purposefully?) of the vast damage we continue to do to the other unlucky inhabitants along for the ride.

The rapid spread of this pandemic is a consequence of inter-continental travel, of fast and easy communication, and of several other factors that have surfaced due entirely to our vast over-density. Read The Club of Rome's "The Limits To Growth", from waaaayyyy back inb the '70s. A quick-read little paperback. Bad modelling-math, but absolutely true conceptualization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_Growth

In particular, I'll C&P this litte exerpt from the Wiki notes:

"In 2008 Graham Turner at the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) in Australia published a paper called "A Comparison of `The Limits to Growth` with Thirty Years of Reality".[5][6] It examined the past thirty years of reality with the predictions made in 1972 and found that changes in industrial production, food production and pollution are all in line with the book's predictions of economic collapse in the 21st century.[7]"

All this doom and gloom, despite what that population ecologist expert Rush Limbuagh says... Ahhh well, eh? one can always turn the other brain....

No matter how, we need to reduce the population on this planet. We also need an altruistic model for self-mamagement, removal of the "acquisition" gene and the "power mongering" gene, and the "arrogance" gene, and we might just make it. At least until that really big meteor hits us and "blammo", all gone in 10 seconds. Despite god.

If you were God, and knew this, how would you do it? I mean to be "fair" and all? Who would you kill off? Just the sick? Just those with nasty hereditary diseases? Just the atheists? A sort of grand Eugenics experiment, leaving nothing but the Christian Aryans? The born-again blacks? The Shinto Asians? The godless Ruskie Commies? Which? Who? How?

So, there is no good means. Perhaps this swine flu will actually help in the final analysis, no matter who it might selectively hit. but only if it takes about 3 - 4.5 billion, and quickly. We're more than capable of re-populating, no matter what socio-economic class remains. You can be sure, sadly, that for instance, the US, Chinese and Russian military will find a safe way through it. Maybe they'll be the new model for our future? We could rename the planet Donald Rumsfeldtworld?

Or perhaps it will just be the Apache who are left, and all we'll be well in the great hereafter. Hi....yi....yieahhh...hey-yah....yey....yah.....

Last edited by rifleman; 04-29-2009 at 10:09 AM.. Reason: adds.
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:11 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,845,986 times
Reputation: 1298
This planet needs about 80% fewer people. It's far too overpopulated and that is why so many live in squalor and why resources are vanishing. If billions died of the Swine Flu, it would be a tragic disaster of epic proportions, but once the shock wore off, the world would be far better off. Especially when you realize that the poor, elderly and infirmed would be the ones most likely to go, so the remaining population would be stronger, healthier and more likely to be intelligent.
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