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Old 05-10-2009, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,222 posts, read 6,995,819 times
Reputation: 6603

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
What I don't trust are people like Jtur and TrickyD. They both imply that POLICE are not trust worthy however in any of the threads that promote gun ownership by citizens, the only protection a citizenry has from the police, they both promote taking firearms away for citizens.

Read through their previous comments and I think you will see a pattern.

GL2
**************************************************
JTur,
I goofed big time. I included you along side TrickyD and implied that you have promoted taking away firearms from private citizens.

I got you confused with another poster. I am sorry for the mix up.

GL2

 
Old 05-10-2009, 06:44 PM
 
485 posts, read 903,663 times
Reputation: 100
Default lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
**************************************************
JTur,
I goofed big time. I included you along side TrickyD and implied that you have promoted taking away firearms from private citizens.

I got you confused with another poster. I am sorry for the mix up.

GL2
Dont feel bad look what i done to Marion Berry!lol
 
Old 05-10-2009, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,590,043 times
Reputation: 35874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
**************************************************
JTur,
I goofed big time. I included you along side TrickyD and implied that you have promoted taking away firearms from private citizens.

I got you confused with another poster. I am sorry for the mix up.

GL2
No prob
 
Old 05-10-2009, 09:11 PM
 
485 posts, read 903,663 times
Reputation: 100
Default you would make a good cop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
**************************************************
JTur,
I goofed big time. I included you along side TrickyD and implied that you have promoted taking away firearms from private citizens.

I got you confused with another poster. I am sorry for the mix up.

GL2
At least your honest!
 
Old 05-10-2009, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,590,043 times
Reputation: 35874
Quote:
Originally Posted by JACK SAWYER View Post
At least your honest!
I think we all already knew that.
 
Old 05-11-2009, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
10,923 posts, read 7,722,587 times
Reputation: 5296
Yes.
Most cops are good guys.
 
Old 05-11-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Location: England
3,242 posts, read 3,021,861 times
Reputation: 3182
I suppose that it's difficult to trust cops when they are convicted of moonlighting as hitmen for the mob, as two detectives were in New York.
 
Old 05-12-2009, 03:32 PM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,624 posts, read 10,701,709 times
Reputation: 19957
well i guess the big question is would we be better off without police??? i definitely would say not.. some police are corrupt but most are just people like us doing a job and a very dangerous one at that for very little wages... i have no problem with the police in general.. only the ones that are corrupt and abuse there power..i know some police they are just like you and me..
 
Old 05-12-2009, 05:17 PM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,423 posts, read 16,695,799 times
Reputation: 16435
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
Regarding plea-bargaining, I can speak from personal experience, but of course I can speak only from my personal experience in a certain place and time, realizing that it might be different elsewhere. In the county where I worked as a cop, thirty years or so ago, it was so much a standard practice for the middle-level offenses to be plea-bargained that there was not really a great deal of involvement by the police in the decision on what happened once the process reached the D.A.'s office. You basically took it for granted that anything above the level of a minor traffic violation or other minor offense, and below the level of the occasional major felony was going to be plea-bargained.

Now, obviously I don't know how things were done in other places at that time, and I don't know much about how things are usually done now. In any case, as I said in the earlier post, I do think there is potentially a serious problem if plea-bargaining becomes the automatic way to handle every criminal case, to the point where even the defense attorney always assumes that the case will be plea-bargained, without really considering his client's guilt or innocence to be an issue. But, as I also pointed out earlier, the vast majority of those sent into the system really are guilty. There are chilling exceptions to this, but usually the main problem with plea-bargaining is that someone guilty will get off with a lighter penalty than what is commensurate with the offense he actually committed. Agreed, though, that those exceptions can lead to some awful consequences.

I'll also say that I do get concerned about what appears to be a possible trend toward a more hardline attitude in some law enforcement circles. Below is a link I've thought of posting at the thread about "militiaristic police," but have not posted there because it seems as if that thread might cover a lot of the same ground as this one. It's a link to a picture of two Massachusetts state troopers, showing a look the MA State Police have had since the '80's. Now, I could be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure that when I was growing up in the Boston metro area, pre-1980's, that the MA troopers wore the traditional Smokey hats. In this picture, with the peaked caps, the boots, and the puffed pant legs, they look like a couple of Nazis. The picture is black-and-white, so you can't see that the uniforms are blue, not the grays and blacks and browns of the various Nazi uniforms, but still, when I see the MA troopers out and about today, I get kind of chilled inside, and I do really have to wonder what it says about a department that would present this kind of image to the public. Here is the link: Our good friend, Sgt Mike Crosby - Massachusetts State Police.
In regards to plea bargening, it is simply not acceptable that it becomes an automatic plea bargin offer on anything less than murder. This is especially true when the police are allowed to lie to those they arrest, as are detectives. It doesn't matter if "most" of those who are pushed into accepting a plea bargain are guilty. We grant rights for the protection of the innocent. This is an abrigation of this. Even if its simply probation, its still a conviction. Want a passport? Want to visit Canada? In this world that matters. The system does not have the right to punish the unlucky citizen who is arrested and charged with something they did not do for being unlucky, especially if the defence councel is in a hurry and pushes for it too.

This country is going down the tubes if that is okay. We already have removed massive protections intended to give those who are NOT guilty a chance and this system is the most blatent abuse which effects the most people.

Regarding the militarization issue. Looks do count. Looks effect the mindset of a person. Give them a uniform which reeks of authority, and power and control and those who have that in them will run with it. This does not mean ALL will, but one is too many. That one colors the view of every single officer who does not let it go to his/her head. And it cements the public perception of the public that the police are not to be trusted.

I remember one incident covered on the news in LA which was just sickening. It was about five years ago I think. This woman was wanted for questioning (and was release that day with no charges). Her son was in a gang. They had determined that this 60 year old woman was home alone and nobody was around. But the police sent the swat team. A group of what looked like storm troopers surrounded the front of the building by her apartment. They wore riot gear and were heavily armed. It looked like the gestapo had descended and was covered by all the news stations. Her experience was recorded. She came to the door, looked terrified by all the display and went with them. She was not arrested. She came home a few hours later.

What did this do to the public perception of the LA police? A simple visit at the door would have done the same thing. Instead it broadcast that the "military" mode of the LA police was in excess.

When people see this they not only distrust the police but fear them. For the guy on his beat this means that John Q Citizen will wonder if this one is a bully or not. And will react that way. And will come away from what could be a reasonable experience learning to be more wary. If it was something that really deserved that ticket or lecture it should be taken as a lesson, not an exercise in waryness.

I've been burgled three times. The first time the officer arrived five hours after the theft, took a list and said don't expect to see it, since its already been sold on a truck. The second time they took a report. The third time they said file one online. It was my laptop with vacation pictures I could not replace. A month later and many phone calls we finally found out they hadn't found it at the thief's place.

When my car was stolen we found a big hole by the fence at the mobile home park where I lived the next day with a few scattered bits from inside the car. Since the insurence wouldn't pay anything (basic liability) and the theft rate was so high it was pointless, I didn't bother even reporting it. Why bother?

It doesn't help that the police have this kind of attitude. Yes, property theft is a minor thing to them, but to the people robbed and violated, its not. The "your f.....ed and go live with it" attitude hurts more than the theft. So why should the public see police in any kind of good light when they are told that they and their loss and trauma does not matter and why should they not question if the police care about anything the citizens do?

Yes, we need police. We need DAs and courts and responsibility. But we need rights and respect and visible humans too. Perhaps instead of offical uniforms which speak of military power, officers should wear casual shirts and jeans and sports jackets. And abuse of power with lies and coercion by courts and police should be curtailed with concequences that matter to the police and courts.

Last edited by nightbird47; 05-12-2009 at 05:40 PM..
 
Old 05-14-2009, 07:33 PM
 
485 posts, read 903,663 times
Reputation: 100
Default true

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruxan View Post
well i guess the big question is would we be better off without police??? i definitely would say not.. some police are corrupt but most are just people like us doing a job and a very dangerous one at that for very little wages... i have no problem with the police in general.. only the ones that are corrupt and abuse there power..i know some police they are just like you and me..
I think the police are great when honest! Its just the bad apples wich are around in any bizz! But we do need police i think,And the truth is it will always be the same good and bad? It is a shame that the good ones get the heat for the few crooks!
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