U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-30-2009, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle
6,486 posts, read 13,783,847 times
Reputation: 2764

Advertisements

Good on ya, pineywoods. I agree with you. I don't think taxes are bad at all. I'd much rather pay taxes and have healthcare, good roads, high speed rail, etc. etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-30-2009, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
22,533 posts, read 46,075,513 times
Reputation: 13302
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineywoods View Post
I am so weary of hearing anger and accusation against the "Feds" as I keep hearing from news commentators and from so many people who seem so anxious to see our government and its leaders as "out to get us." Apparently I'm in the minority, because I'm still blessing my government, glad to live in America, where my government provides me a high quality lifestyle by ANY standards, and so many freedoms and amenities that i can't count them all. I choose to be grateful and appreciative. I choose to see our government and our leaders as basically decent people who really want good things for us all. The US is not and never will be perfect, but it isn't the great Satan we hear it lambasted as today. Nor are taxes necessarily the great evil "rip off" so many claim. Again...I choose to see my blessings and be grateful. Sorry for the rant, but I've about had it with the non-stop negativity on TV and all around. God bless the USA.
Yes!!!!! These days, I am very proud to be an American!

By the way, I wanted to mention that I have known of two people that had lung cancer. Once they were told, they had a month to live and died at home. It was very quick.

Obesity causes problems over many years, for the most part.

And I smoke and am overweight. The smoking I am working on with the Chantix, but the overweight thing has caused so much trouble. I will say that I was only recently overweight, and it may have been caused by an internal health problem. That's what it is starting look like. In other words, I am fat due to a sudden health issue. But still, I feel horrible.

I vote for being overweight as being the worse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2009, 10:12 PM
 
11,604 posts, read 31,777,545 times
Reputation: 8203
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabogitlu View Post
Good on ya, pineywoods. I agree with you. I don't think taxes are bad at all. I'd much rather pay taxes and have healthcare, good roads, high speed rail, etc. etc.
A government that is big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away from you everything you have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Seattle
6,486 posts, read 13,783,847 times
Reputation: 2764
*shrug* The way I see it, basically any crazy person or entity can gain enough power to completely derail society. I might not wake up in the morning because some idiot detonated a nuclear bomb. (And I was fairly sure that if the GOP came back into power this election cycle that as a liberal gay atheist [insert other dirty words here] someone was going to haul off and shoot me anyway.) So I just try to live day to day and support things I think need supporting.

Course, we're all different and I definitely see what you're saying. I think small government has many merits, but I think a middle-sized government does too. I'm glad we live somewhere that we get to vote on it.

Hik, I have two family members that have had a lot of weight gain due to sudden health complications and medicines. It is not a good experience and I hope things get better for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 12:59 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
606 posts, read 1,483,997 times
Reputation: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
I'm a little confused by some of what I'm reading here.
Is this a rant against the TN gov't or a rant against insurance companies? Because I'm not really seeing what the gov't has to do with this, except that the employees we're talking about happen to be employed by the state instead of being employed by the XYZ company. Doesn't the state contract with private insurance companies just like any other large business does? And isn't enrollment in a company sponsored plan completely voluntary? Where was the outrage when employers in the private sector started doing this? To me, this just looks like a pretty straight forward attempt at cost cutting by another employer, and I don't really read anything Orwellian into it.
I think the tax increase on cigarettes is fair game for that argument though.
Basically DoubleT. Which is why I'm finding all the implications that this is the greatest tyranny ever imposed upon mankind to be kind of ludicrous.

I have no problem with paying taxes for social services that provide a net benefit to society. I don't see how subsidizing smokers' health risks somehow accomplishes that. Nor do I know of any private insurer that does not "discriminate" based on obvious health risks such as smoking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabogitlu View Post
Course, we're all different and I definitely see what you're saying. I think small government has many merits, but I think a middle-sized government does too. I'm glad we live somewhere that we get to vote on it.
The debate really shouldn't be "small government" versus "medium-sized government" versus "large government". All three are arbitrary distinctions mostly used by politicians to distract voters from the actual issues confronting them.

The debate should be whether paying taxes for a certain government service provides a net benefit (or return on investment) for society. I'm not seeing how paying a tax to pay for health care costs of smokers accomplishes that. Whereas, I can clearly see how paying taxes to provide university education to people does accomplish that. Suggesting that there is no difference between the two seems like a stretch to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jabogitlu View Post
Good on ya, pineywoods. I agree with you. I don't think taxes are bad at all. I'd much rather pay taxes and have healthcare, good roads, high speed rail, etc. etc.
Also consider this --- the reason you don't have "high speed rail" might very well be because of the "good roads" being subsidized by the government. Governmental policy has favored automobile transportation and trucking over public transportation and rail for several decades, which is one of the reasons why public transportation is a complete failure in most localities in the US. In essence, the government has distorted the marketplace so that it appears that it's cheaper to drive.

Not that I'm saying we should make all roads private. But in the larger cities, it might not be such a horrible idea to make all the major highways toll roads, which would force people to move inward, make public transportation more feasible, and create greater efficiencies over the long run.

Like I said --- people oversimplify issues in "government = good" and "government = bad" terms because that's what the media and politicians have done. It didn't used to be that way. People used to actually talk about the effectiveness and usefulness of policies --- I'm not seeing that any more and this thread seems like a prime example to me.

Ideology is bankrupt --- whether it be "liberal", "conservative", "libertarian", "communist", etc. People need to start thinking about things on a more practical level again. Who cares about labels?

Last edited by mbmouse; 05-01-2009 at 09:22 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Piney Flats, TN
423 posts, read 1,233,374 times
Reputation: 259
This is quickly becoming a political thread, and probably belongs elsewhere. I'm with Jab and others who choose to see the US government as "on our side" for the most part instead of flat out against us. And I agree with jakila too. There is too much instant polarization based on partisan politics with little thought behind it. I like his thought that people need to start thinking more practically and with less stubborn, automatic dogmatism. When it comes to policies that 'interfere' with personal freedoms , like the smoking tax, don't we also want a society where there is accountability when those personal freedoms have a direct affect on insurance costs? Health insurance companies are already making the connection, offering health maintenance programs that tie the employees adherence to good health practices to the cost of the company's insurance. That's accountability with a cost benefit.

Anyway, tough issues. Just please, people, show some respect for the US Government. There's too much name calling, vile accusations, ignorant rants with no facts to back it up. (Much of it on your daily news shows) Everyone has something nasty to say, but why bring the country down with that potty talk? There is so much crap being thrown around about the President of this country. Whether you voted for him or are part of his party or not, we need to stick together as a country and appreciate our freedoms. Party labels are so dang divisive...which is why I'm an independent voter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Beautiful East TN!!
7,281 posts, read 18,705,867 times
Reputation: 2750
You are right pineywoods, I think it is time to move this to the "great debates" sub forum. So moving it over there, continue on all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Columbus, OH
857 posts, read 1,228,861 times
Reputation: 558
Here's an interesting read for those who argue taxing cigarettes is good for the economy.

How Much Does Smoking Cost Society?

for those who cant be bothered it basically says that smokers SAVE the economy money because they die earlier and take less money from social security and Medicare when compared to healthy people who live a lot longer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Connecticut
1,461 posts, read 4,098,902 times
Reputation: 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
I'm all in favor of people not smoking BUT is this government flexing its muscle where irt doesn't belong. The Tennessee State government is going to charge state workers $600 per year after December 31 if they OR THEIR SPOUSE smokes.Tennessee state employees will have to pay to smoke in 2010 : Mid-South : Memphis Commercial Appeal
I didn't read the attachment but I can see where this whole thing with non smoking issues is getting out of control. I quit smoking 2 years ago and it has probably been the single most amazing thing I have ever done for myself. The difference in how I feel is off the charts...however...I too think the government needs to stop putting pressure on people to quit and let them decide for themselves. I was hoping that the increase in the price for a pack of smokes was going to be enough to get my son to stop smoking but so far...no go.

I really wish the government would try supporting people with "issues" instead of penalizing them. I heard on the news that now the airlines are going to start charging big folks extra to fly in their planes...what are they insane? It is expensive enough to fly as it is let alone charge some of us BBW's and BBM extra to sit on a plane! I think it is time that the powers that be figure out a way to give some people with nicotine addiction or food addictions even drug addictions some sort of incentive to stop; support the problem don't penalize for it.

Watch out or the next time you step out the door and you are still a BBW it is going to cost you extra for the gas it takes to haul your BB Butt around in your car!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Connecticut
1,461 posts, read 4,098,902 times
Reputation: 1646
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiknapster View Post
Yes!!!!! These days, I am very proud to be an American!By the way, I wanted to mention that I have known of two people that had lung cancer. Once they were told, they had a month to live and died at home. It was very quick.Obesity causes problems over many years, for the most part.And I smoke and am overweight. The smoking I am working on with the Chantix, but the overweight thing has caused so much trouble. I will say that I was only recently overweight, and it may have been caused by an internal health problem. That's what it is starting look like. In other words, I am fat due to a sudden health issue. But still, I feel horrible.I vote for being overweight as being the worse.
I am glad to hear that you are trying to stop smoking using Chantix...I used it and other than the vivid dreams, it worked well for me. I didn't even have to take it for the full 12 weeks; stopped using it at 10 and was still able to quit. Works good. I too am overweight but most of it is coming from having a thyroid issue...very slow thyroid so I am on medication for that. Not an excuse to not lose weight, just harder to lose it. Being overweight is bad but not the end of the world. My cholesterol has always been low; last time 132, my sugar is always in the high 80's to low 90's which is outstanding. My triglycerides are low.....so I am a healthy fat lady for sure.

Last year in February, I had open heart surgery not caused from being fat and not because I had clogged anything....I had an upper aortic aneurysm which is definitely a hereditary issue and a very dangerous one. I also ended up with valve replacement to my surprise. I had one of the best heart surgeons in the world...Dr. John Elefteriades at Yale New Haven Hospital...he is the BEST of the BEST. My first question to him was am I too fat to have surgery...I am mildly obese...he said no...that for a big lady, I was in pretty good shape physically so there ya go....not all fat peoople are unhealthy.

Good luck with the smoking...it will be by far the most amazing thing ever once you have gotten that monkey off your back; trust me!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top