U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,386,888 times
Reputation: 4893

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Yes, just thinking about all those slaves picking cotton 'd like to wore Rhett Butler plum out.
Non Sequitur
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,638,476 times
Reputation: 35876
Mental work is extremely hard work. It is exhausting. .

(followed by)
Yes, just thinking about all those slaves picking cotton 'd like to wore Rhett Butler plum out.

That is a non-sequitur?

Premise: Mental work is hard and exhausting.

Response:: It's not hard and exhausting, compared to physical work.

Rebuttal. Non sequitur.

Umm. OK. Try Greek. Latin is not your strong suit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,386,888 times
Reputation: 4893
Look up non sequitur.

Your argument (Butler) has no meaning to the argument or discussion. It was meaningless. Contributes nothing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,638,476 times
Reputation: 35876
You mean I should have said: Southern plantation owners did not find the mental task of administering their estates to be as exhausting as did the slaves they owned for doing all the physical labor of maintaining the plantation and generating the profits through their forced effort. Nor, historically, are there significant other examples of wealthy land-owners and/or slave holders who appear to have worked themselves to death by merely hiring middle-management people to oversee their fortunes and empires. In general,extreme wealth and power, in most cases, appears to have a certain leisurely pace to it that was not particularly threatening to the well-being of the person who had to "think" about the estate, aside from the mental anguish that was associated with his unbridled greed for even finer horses and more lavish table settings.

Why am I wasting my time writing one non-sequitur after another, when the only thing that is not a non sequitur would be "Oh, yes, Master, you are always correct".

Why do "great debates" always have to be cluttered by people who throw out perky one-lines, and then use a two-word Latin phrase to dismiss every response, merely trying to show off that they know a Latin phrase, which in fact they not know the meaning of at all.

non se⋅qui⋅tur

–noun
1. Logic. an inference or a conclusion that does not follow from the premises.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,386,888 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You mean I should have said: Southern plantation owners did not find the mental task of administering their estates to be as exhausting as did the slaves they owned for doing all the physical labor of maintaining the plantation and generating the profits through their forced effort. .
No - you should not have written anything about Butler - as it is not applicable to todays world.

Got it now.

And mental work can be as exhausting as physical work - and that is an indisputable FACT.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,638,476 times
Reputation: 35876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
No - you should not have written anything about Butler - as it is not applicable to todays world.

Got it now.

And mental work can be as exhausting as physical work - and that is an indisputable FACT.

So, since my later response was not about Butler, it was not a non sequitur, and therefore is a valid response to your remark, and I await an intelligent rebuttal.

You failed to point out in your original premise that you were limiting your remarks to "today's world", and therefore, an analysis of "today's world" was the confining framework about the premise, and therefore any historical examples or generalizations about the long development of our culture would be a non sequitur. Sorry I misunderstood your intent.

I should have replied, "but in today's world, there are a lot of bullies in school too" and that would have not been a non sequitur, because it would have remainied within your framework of "today's world". It seems you were not talking about work, or exhaustion, or mental effort, but only about Today's World. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Somehow I got off topic and started thinking about hard work. My apologies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 10:06 AM
 
536 posts, read 1,646,398 times
Reputation: 323
I believe that you can get physically exhausted from any type of work. mental or physical. But more from actual manual labor. But at the same time there is a mental exhaustion too that some people don't understand if all they have done is the physical labor.

I worked with an engineer that used to work in a factory. He said it was hard work and he was filthy and exhausted at the end of the day. But it was only physical. As an engineer he had a lot of responsibility and was constantly stressed about deadlines, customers, money, designing something that won't get someone injured. All he wanted to do was go home and not think His brain was fried as they say. This can drain you physically as well.

Sure, you can get mentally drained laboring, so is there really much difference between the two?

Our engineers work 7 days a week without overtime. Some places the engineers had to sleep at their desks and be away from home more then two days. Some work 100 hours per week while having to make critical decisions.

Maybe we could define hard work as the actual output. Your actual contribution to the business you work for, society, family, even the world. Every job is different, every requirement measured differently. Otherwise we are reduced to arguing about who worked harder than who. I think that is only feasible if the situations are the same.

And to be honest I don't consider myself a hard worker overall Only when I have to do I "work hard". I refuse to fail my peers and would hate gtting anyone int rouble by not livign up to expectations.

But if we must define hard work then try this: Two workers dig two separate 6 foot deep trenches that are 3 feet wide. One uses a shovel, the other a backhoe. They accomplish the same thing. One would argue that the guy with the shovel worked harder. So we could measure that a hard worker uses more physical energy than someone that accomplishes the same thing, in less time, with no physical exertion.

Now where is the mental exhaustion I spoke of above? It's not the guy in the backhoe, its the guy that designed it, tested it, engineered it. The one that spent countless hours running numbers so that he wouldn't get somebody killed in something he designed.

I would come up with a measurement for mental exhaustion but I am starting to babble to much
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 01:52 PM
 
583 posts, read 1,115,101 times
Reputation: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by sike0000 View Post
Our engineers work 7 days a week without overtime. Some places the engineers had to sleep at their desks and be away from home more then two days. Some work 100 hours per week while having to make critical decisions.
I've done exactly that! You just described one of the projects I worked on 2 months without a single day off, coming to the office at 10-11 leaving at 4-5am when other people wake up, taking a nap under my cube. Surprisingly, I wasn't as unhappy as many would think. I wasn't stressed, it was just mental work, like solving puzzles, which I love to do. I was simply sleep deprived and I ate a lot of food, boy was I hungry ALL THE TIME! Other than that I wasn't unhappy even though I have gotten paid a lot less than I was getting paid later in my career.

I also have worked in the fields for 2 months (commercial fields with the loooong 1 mile 'lanes' I had to tend to bending down every moment picking stuff or pulling weeds). I happened to also work at a factory creating electronic components but this was sitting at a table in a temperature controlled environment, it was monotonous but it was ok, given the fact I could also converse with my fellow workers when bored. When I started my own business it became 'harder', because now I was working in a very politically charged environment that exhausted me completely and made me develop chronic sleep problems I am still dealing with up to these days.

Which work did I hate the most? the field work I hate it so much that I am disgusted with the idea of gardening and I would care less to have a backyard unless I have someone taking care of it on full time basis. I have no desire to work on land ever again. Other things, I think I can deal with.

So, to each their own.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Mississauga
1,575 posts, read 1,708,414 times
Reputation: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
So, since my later response was not about Butler, it was not a non sequitur, and therefore is a valid response to your remark, and I await an intelligent rebuttal.

You failed to point out in your original premise that you were limiting your remarks to "today's world", and therefore, an analysis of "today's world" was the confining framework about the premise, and therefore any historical examples or generalizations about the long development of our culture would be a non sequitur. Sorry I misunderstood your intent.

I should have replied, "but in today's world, there are a lot of bullies in school too" and that would have not been a non sequitur, because it would have remainied within your framework of "today's world". It seems you were not talking about work, or exhaustion, or mental effort, but only about Today's World. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Somehow I got off topic and started thinking about hard work. My apologies.
You're a riot. I hope you don't drive yourself crazy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2009, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Mississauga
1,575 posts, read 1,708,414 times
Reputation: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Plains_Retired View Post
Well, I didn't get to the kitchen light fixtures or the shower as I had to replace the brake master cylinder on my Accord.

I recently bought this old west Texas farm house as a retirement "refuge" but I may have let my heart overload my brain as I may now have taken on more work than I have time left on Earth. However, the golden eagle sitting on the fence post behind the house last weekend assured me I probably made the right decision. And yesterday I was startled by a large mule deer as she ran startled from the bar ditch of the dirt road I had decided to take back to the house. Luckily I wasn't in the Accord or we both would have looked like a doe in a headlight beam!
Hey - giving yourself all these things to do means you'll be around a long time in order to complete them. Just minimize road encounters with Mule Deer'
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top