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Old 04-30-2009, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
2,868 posts, read 8,451,570 times
Reputation: 1500

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
It's just a matter of time before a womb can be simulated which means that your argument is meaningless. But it was meaningless before. How does calling a child a 'parasite' or not make it less worthy of life?
PARASITE
An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

Never called an embryo a parasite...But if you look at the definition...isn't it though?

I am really anxious to see a "simulated womb"... My argument is meaningless? Yours is not at all! That is laughable.

Point is embryoes can not live outside a REAL womb. An adult obviously can... A fetus is not viable until it's 23rd-ish week of life.
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Old 04-30-2009, 10:17 PM
 
1,330 posts, read 1,044,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KT13 View Post
And what do surrogates do exactly? They incubate the fetus to term using their bodies. Or maybe you think 'surrogates' are the sci-fi artificial incubation tanks? Last time I checked a human embryo in the 1st trimester of its development (when vast majority of abortions happen) cannot be incubated outside of a woman's body. Whether this is it's original mother who contributed genetic material or a surrogate.

You know what the difference is between a surrogate and a mother forced to incubate her unwanted fetus? A surrogate is a willing 'incubation tank' while the original mother wanting to abort is the unwilling one. A surrogate gets paid for her services and gets all her medical bills covered, while the unwilling mother seeking abortion gets in debt if she is not qualified for medical assistance and has no maternity insurance. Or you as a taxpayer will be contributing to her healthcare and the welfare of her child if she is poor.
Sorry, I thought the claim was made specifically that a fetus was "a parasite living in the mother". I figured if others wanted to split hairs and focus on irrelevant minutiae, so could I.

Your cruel term not withstanding, it doesn't matter. All embryos and fetuses are living developing human beings. No woman has a moral right to kill them.
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Old 04-30-2009, 10:20 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,748,199 times
Reputation: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
Sorry, I thought the claim was made specifically that a fetus was "a parasite living in the mother". I figured if others wanted to split hairs and focus on irrelevant minutiae, so could I.

Your cruel term not withstanding, it doesn't matter. All embryos and fetuses are living developing human beings. No woman has a moral right to kill them.
Your arguments just don't add up. The only argument you can present for abortion being immoral is that embryos are human, and therefore it is wrong to kill them.

Based on that argument, then it would be wrong to kill ANY human, no matter what, just by way of the fact that they are human.

Now....

The reality of life is that there are circumstances under which it is justified to take human life. And for many people, certain circumstances justify taking human life when it is still in the form of an embryo...just as you have admitted that it's sometimes justified to kill innocent children who are caught in the crossfire in our war against terrorism. You've even hailed Bush as a hero for all those children he killed while protecting us from Bin Laden.

You can't have it both ways you know.
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Old 04-30-2009, 10:21 PM
 
1,330 posts, read 1,044,243 times
Reputation: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Danielle* View Post
PARASITE
An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

Never called an embryo a parasite...But if you look at the definition...isn't it though?

I am really anxious to see a "simulated womb"... My argument is meaningless? Yours is not at all! That is laughable.

Point is embryoes can not live outside a REAL womb. An adult obviously can... A fetus is not viable until it's 23rd-ish week of life.
The fact that a fetus lives in a womb is irrelevant to the fact that its a human life. That's why the 'parasite' disparagement is irrelevant.

Sigh! Isn't anybody going to try to muster even a weak challenge to my OP? It's 11:20 PM, so guess not. lol.
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Old 04-30-2009, 10:21 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,748,199 times
Reputation: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
The fact that a fetus lives in a womb is irrelevant to the fact that its a human life. That's why the 'parasite' disparagement is irrelevant.

Sigh! Isn't anybody going to try to muster even a weak challenge to my OP? It's 11:20 PM, so guess not. lol.
HERE IT IS AGAIN:

Your arguments just don't add up. The only argument you can present for abortion being immoral is that embryos are human, and therefore it is wrong to kill them.

Based on that argument, then it would be wrong to kill ANY human, no matter what, just by way of the fact that they are human.

Now....

The reality of life is that there are circumstances under which it is justified to take human life. And for many people, certain circumstances justify taking human life when it is still in the form of an embryo...just as you have admitted that it's sometimes justified to kill innocent children who are caught in the crossfire in our war against terrorism. You've even hailed Bush as a hero for all those children he killed while protecting us from Bin Laden.

You can't have it both ways you know.
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Old 04-30-2009, 10:23 PM
 
1,330 posts, read 1,044,243 times
Reputation: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
Your arguments just don't add up. The only argument you can present for abortion being immoral is that embryos are human, and therefore it is wrong to kill them.

Based on that argument, then it would be wrong to kill ANY human, no matter what, just by way of the fact that they are human.

Now....

The reality of life is that there are circumstances under which it is justified to take human life. And for many people, certain circumstances justify taking human life when it is still in the form of an embryo...just as you have admitted that it's sometimes justified to kill innocent children who are caught in the crossfire in our war against terrorism. You've even hailed Bush as a hero for all those children he killed while protecting us from Bin Laden.

You can't have it both ways you know.
Um, I have yet to see the threat to the lives of mankind if these millions of babies had been allowed to be born. Could you enlighten me on the imminent threat they posed?
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Old 04-30-2009, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
2,868 posts, read 8,451,570 times
Reputation: 1500
[quote=Reads2MUCH;8594787]Fair enough, but you still have not addressed the issue at hand. That issue being if life must be able to immediately sustain itself, wouldn't we cease to exist completely. Also, you may see it as simply my opinion. But the right to live seems to be a pretty important thing to all of us don't you think. I don't know about you but I sure am glad no one took away my chance to exist. My question is, why do we feel we should be able to control life itself. There should be no question as to the embryos right to live. The question should be do we have the right to interfere with the natural process which nature has provided us so that we could survive and reproduce as a species.[/quote]

When it is happening in my body, it is my right. If my body is hosting a parasitic embryo (speaking in the true definition of the word parasite) it is my right to choose what I want or need to do with my body. That embryo is not sustaining life at this point. It is sharing mine. Viable fetus...different story IMO.

Back to the OP.

and I qoute...

A human embryo from the moment of conception is exactly the same genetically as the adult human being it will become (barring premature death) except in stage of development. There is no other difference. Period.

My point There is a difference...an embryo can not sustain life at all with out the mother hosting it in her womb. An adult can. A 2 day old can...a premie can...
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Old 04-30-2009, 10:30 PM
 
583 posts, read 1,115,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
Sadly, for those who don't value human life, I don't see why the elderly would be off-limits for such 'compassionate' people.
Oh, don't give me all this crap about 'compassion'

Let all these unwanted babies be born that their own mother doesn't want. These babies will need a lot more care, are you going to adopt one or two? Add them to your family, put them through college, teach them a trade so that they can make a living and stay away from drugs and crime? I see people thrown out on the streets living out of cardboard boxes everywhere in every major city. I've seen kids from the 'drug' households, their mothers should have gotten abortions! Many of these kids have developmental problems and are going to be handicapped for the rest of their lives at this point no matter how they are raised. And you should see how they are raised, abandoned, neglected, with passed out parents and questionable individuals hanging around the house, dirty, half dressed. Hey, America, we can film our own Slumdog Millionnaire, come on over to the getto!

Yes, let's give them life - a life of misery, because we are doing a great job taking care of our 'unfortunate'. A civilization that throws its poor, its sick out on the streets like trash certainly should blabber about great compassion towards a collection of cells who 'have a potential to develop into a human being'.
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Old 04-30-2009, 10:30 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,748,199 times
Reputation: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeeee22895 View Post
Um, I have yet to see the threat to the lives of mankind if these millions of babies had been allowed to be born. Could you enlighten me on the imminent threat they posed?
No, I cannot enlighten you (because I'm beginning to wonder if that's even possible).

But why don't you enlighten ME? Tell me why killing innocent children in Iraq was more justifiable than aborting fetuses? Can you prove that these children would have grown up to be terrorists? No, of course you can't. Yet you seem to feel that the "collateral damage" of so many innocent children dying in Iraq is justifiable because it protects Americans from terrorism.

So, if I have this right, you are okay with killing, even the innocent, if the end result is we get the bad guys. Right?

Well there are many people who feel that aborting fetuses is justifiable, for a multitude of reasons. And as long as abortion is legal, some women will seek abortions because they are protecting themselves and their futures. And, even more important (although I don't think you can grasp this concept), many women don't want to bring unwanted children into the world who have no hope of any quality of life.
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Old 04-30-2009, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
2,868 posts, read 8,451,570 times
Reputation: 1500
You would think that the people who complain about "having too many handouts" would be OK with abortions... Funny how all of these poor mothers keep having kids and not aborting, getting more and more 'handouts' and the same people b itch becuase she keeps having kids and keeps getting handouts...So let me get this straight...against aborting embryoes, hate handouts given to poor mothers who have their babies, OK with frying people with the death penalty and good with killing innocent people during war... Who said compassion?
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