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Old 05-09-2009, 10:30 AM
 
Location: The Shires
2,257 posts, read 1,723,280 times
Reputation: 1050

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Greatday My point is that American gun fetishists only focus on their personal freedoms and completely disregard general safety.

Or maybe my point is that American gun fetishists all believe themselves to be Rambo or Dirty Harry.
A lone American individual will be picked off by organised crime, no matter how well armed he is.
Just like a lone lion poses no treat to a pack of hyenas.
In this regard the criminal element knows how to cooperate with each other.
Interesting point....

Also, if the government ever turned on us, owning a couple of pistols would be no match for the might of a 21st century army or air force (it's not the 18th century anymore). Perhaps the right to bear arms should be extended to owning rocket launchers and grenades (as I'd jokingly replied to another poster), since the weapons ante has been well and truly "upped". If such an unlikely thing were to happen (the government/army turning on the people), you know what I'd do? I'd RUN....but I'm sure I'll get called a coward for that.

Guns...yes, if I actually owned a house here in the US, I might be inclined to own a gun (in fact, I would buy one). I'd probably stand a better chance of defending my home against an intruder, but guns seldom protect people when it comes to street crime (because even if you carry a concealed weapon in public, it'd be pretty useless if you were jumped by a gang).

 
Old 05-09-2009, 10:33 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,522,229 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Greatday
Quote:
OBTW: you watch too many movies - they are FICTON.
LoL, I'm not the 1 who believes that everyone can handle a firearm responsibly, so should be given a gun the moment they want 1.

FYI every gun fetishist believes that their gun can stop or prevent crime, which obviously is not the case.
If that was the case there would be no crime in the US.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,374,882 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
LoL, I'm not the 1 who believes that everyone can handle a firearm responsibly, so should be given a gun the moment they want 1.

FYI every gun fetishists believes that their gun can stop or prevent crime, which obviously is not the case.
If that was the case there would be no crime in the US.
First, I, nor anyone else here, has said, implied or intimidated that "everyone can handle a firearm responsibly". Your assertion that we has is a PURE FABRICATION BY YOU. Or, to put it another way, a LIE

BUT, As an American, and I know this will PO you, with certain limitations, have the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to own and possess a firearm.

And again, your continued use of gun "fetishists" is not enhancing any point you are trying to make - it simply diminishes your credibility since you continue to spew hyperbole - nothing more.

There are MANY cases where someone who was carrying a concealed weapon DID STOP a crime from happening.

There are MANY cases where someone who had a firearm was able to protect their lives, and that of their families lives, from armed intruders.

Now, how about YOU giving a straight forward answer to a question:

Your place of residence is broken into by an armed intruder. You are at home. You have the means to kill that person who is threatening you. Would you kill that intruder in order to save your life and possible the life of another?

Please, answer the question.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,437,255 times
Reputation: 47456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
First, I, nor anyone else here, has said, implied or intimidated that "everyone can handle a firearm responsibly". Your assertion that we has is a PURE FABRICATION BY YOU. Or, to put it another way, a LIE

BUT, As an American, and I know this will PO you, with certain limitations, have the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to own and possess a firearm.

And again, your continued use of gun "fetishists" is not enhancing any point you are trying to make - it simply diminishes your credibility since you continue to spew hyperbole - nothing more.

There are MANY cases where someone who was carrying a concealed weapon DID STOP a crime from happening.

There are MANY cases where someone who had a firearm was able to protect their lives, and that of their families lives, from armed intruders.

Now, how about YOU giving a straight forward answer to a question:

Your place of residence is broken into by an armed intruder. You are at home. You have the means to kill that person who is threatening you. Would you kill that intruder in order to save your life and possible the life of another?

Please, answer the question.
if pest control was not available i would say its an option.
paper or plastic bag sir? did you need assistance carrying that out?
 
Old 05-09-2009, 10:50 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,362 posts, read 9,992,499 times
Reputation: 9108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Greatday My point is that American gun fetishists only focus on their personal freedoms and completely disregard general safety.
Or maybe my point is that American gun fetishists all believe themselves to be Rambo or Dirty Harry.

The main problem I see with your train of thought is that you are assuming the terms ‘gun owner’ (or ‘gun enthusiasts’) and ‘criminal’ to be synonymous. They are not.

I have a butcher knife in my kitchen. It CAN BE USED to kill someone. Does that make me ‘Rambo’? A rock from my front yard CAN BE USED to kill someone. Does that make me Rambo? You mistakenly assume that in the presence of a potentially lethal device, the average person will automatically use that device for such. You are in essence assuming that every person is either a sociopath or a psychopath and must be saved from him or herself. Perhaps that’s true in your neck of the woods, but it’s not where I live. Most folks around here own guns and I’m not hearing any shots right now… nor have I ever heard any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
A lone American individual will be picked off by organised crime, no matter how well armed he is.
Just like a lone lion poses no treat to a pack of hyenas.
In this regard the criminal element knows how to cooperate with each other.
By ‘organised crime,' I assume you are talking about an errant government. Yes, that is a major concern. But the idea is that this organized crime will have a more difficult time enslaving a populace which is armed than it would one which is not armed. Mind you, this organized crime can still probably succeed in doing so (vastly superior firepower), but the ‘lion’ that you mention stands a slightly better chance against the ‘pack of hyenas’ organized crime than does a sheep or lemming. Further, a pride of lions stands a much better chance against the organized crime hyenas.

Many gun owners have a gun, know how to use it, but have never had the need to do so. You assume they go around blasting everything all day long like Annie Oakley. You’ve been watching too many westerns… or you’ve seen ‘Rambo’ one too many times. The gun is a tool. It’s available if needed, just as an ironing board in the closet is available when needed.

I’m not really into guns all that much, but I have been into traditional longbow archery and medieval era crossbows. I guarantee you, those devices can kill and the death would be prolonged, miserable and gruesome. Lot’s of things can kill. A pencil can kill. Guns just happen to be one of many of this generation’s ‘social ills’ scapegoats. Given time, it'll probably pass when the 'next big thing' comes along. But it sure is annoying right now, isn't it?
 
Old 05-09-2009, 10:55 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,522,229 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Greatday
Quote:
BUT, As an American, and I know this will PO you, with certain limitations, have the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to own and possess a firearm.
LoL it seems that you’re the only 1 who’s pissed off by this.
I don't care 1 bit about your constitution because slavery once also was part of the American constitution, otherwise it would've been illegal from the beginning.
Which it obviously wasn't, because at 1 point in time slavery was perfectly legal in the US.
Heck it probably was even in the American constitution that women aren't equal to men.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 11:00 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,362 posts, read 9,992,499 times
Reputation: 9108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Heck it probably was even in the American constitution that women aren't equal to men.
And women were always afforded equal status in the low countries, right?

Your comments continue to stray from the topic at an alarming rate. And I thought I was bad.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 11:03 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,522,229 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by ChrisC
Quote:
You mistakenly assume that in the presence of a potentially lethal device, the average person will automatically use that device for such.
My whole point is that not everyone should carry a firearm.
Especially not people who have a medical history, are addicted (or have been addicted) to drugs or are just clinically insane.

Quote:
By ‘organised crime,' I assume you are talking about an errant government.
By organised crime I mean organised crime; be they government, large corporation or small-time street gangs.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,374,882 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
My whole point is that not everyone should carry a firearm.
Are you going to answer the question I posed to you in a previous post?
 
Old 05-09-2009, 11:08 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,522,229 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948
Quote:
Your place of residence is broken into by an armed intruder. You are at home. You have the means to kill that person who is threatening you. Would you kill that intruder in order to save your life and possible the life of another?
There is no need to immediately kill an intruder.
Only if he is under the influence of drugs will I immediately use (lethal) violence.
And only because drugs make people unpredictable.
Otherwise I'll always try to talk people down 1st before I decide to use violence.
And you don't need a firearm to use violence.
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