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Old 05-09-2009, 01:28 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,319,821 times
Reputation: 2558

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by jtur88Nope.
My point is that people with guns assume that they already are prepared for any situation.
A gun is just a tool; the human mind (strategy and being prepared) is far deadlier than a gun.
That is why not everyone should be in the possession of a gun.
Greatday already has proven that he is willing to kill me to prove that he can.
Do you truly believe that someone with this kind of attitude should be given a gun?

Anywayz, I'm glad that I don't live in the US with so many gung ho people willing and able to kill others over an argument.

Why misconstrue his statement?
What he said & you know it, was that if he & you faced identical situations & were attacked by an armed killer he would have a much better chance than you. That is a fact.
Situational awareness is key armed or not but you seem to think that everybody here carries a gun & nobody here trains with them. The facts are quite different. Whether or not you believe it theres alot of red tape, regulation & restriction before you can carry a gun in most states. Most people willing to go thru it have a genuine interest in firearms defense & go well beyong the required curriculum.

Another fact is most criminals never shoot their gun until its in the commision of a crime. A less prepared & skilled shooter is going to be hard to find. They simply cannot drill or have live fire practice anywhere near what a civilian can. Usually, if confronted with an armed victim they run, or they lose. I can say for certain that if someone breaks into my home no time will be wasted unlocking & loading a firearm. The same gun I carry most every day & shoot at least twice a week will be redilly available should it become needed. If its needed I will hit what I'm shooting at.

 
Old 05-09-2009, 01:33 PM
 
919 posts, read 1,667,798 times
Reputation: 478
Default gun free america

get back on topic guys! there are too many of are fellow citizens that do have a fantasy that the country would be better off without guns. If you register mine, I wonder how they plan to gather up all the others? Go get all the guns from criminals and leave me alone. the nra seems to have members that believe that alittle registration is ok. not on my watch. Iam a nra member as much as they **** me off. I will fight them and the anti-gunners. No more infringements. and give back the rights wrongly taken. not more restrictions, more rights respected.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 01:41 PM
 
Location: 95468
1,383 posts, read 2,064,518 times
Reputation: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugZub View Post
Uh huh...because taking away guns would quell all crime.
Like Dafur and Rwanda?
 
Old 05-09-2009, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
Yes, now that that silly little snit seems to be over, let's get back on topic. Repeating my post:

According to FBI statistics, how many white Americans over the age of 25 were murdered by a stranger with a gun in 2006? ANS: 490. (The number over age 50 was 86. Less than two per average-sized state, like Missouri or Virginia.)

My chances it will happen to me are about three out of a million. Consider that a fast-lane lifestyle would account for a large share of those (not all victims are random) the odds are even more in my favor.

I don't feel that those odds make it worthwhile to invest several hundred dollars in a gun, learn how to use it better than a likely assailant, and properly maintain it and secure it,
 
Old 05-09-2009, 01:54 PM
 
Location: 95468
1,383 posts, read 2,064,518 times
Reputation: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What do you think would be the disadvantage of an entire culture knowing how go get along with each other, without ever feeling that there was a need for guns?

I once lived in a fairly large Noth American city (St. John's, Newfoundland, pop. 250,000) in which the police did not carry guns. At all. Ever. It was quite a peaceful town, and in all the years I was there, the police never felt like they needed guns. No cop was ever shot. At. The town had been there since 1528, and no policeman ever needed a gun. Yes, people hunted, and used guns. For that purpose.

Suggesting that "everybody" ought to have a gun would have sounded rather preposterous to these people.

I don't understand what makes Camden New Jersey superior to St. John's just because people there have guns.

The exception does not disprove the rule.
Good grief. Crime and violence are willful acts.
They don't result from the presence of a thing.
Or vanish from the lack of one.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,361,805 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
According to FBI statistics, how many white Americans over the age of 25 were murdered by a stranger with a gun in 2006? ANS: 490. (The number over age 50 was 86. Less than two per average-sized state, like Missouri or Virginia.)
Here is a research project for you:

How many people were able to defend themselves with a firearm during that same period with it not resulting in their death?
 
Old 05-09-2009, 02:05 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,296 posts, read 9,975,609 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
My point is that American gun fetishists only focus on their personal freedoms and completely disregard general safety.

Or maybe my point is that American gun fetishists all believe themselves to be Rambo or Dirty Harry.
Well, I'm back from my daily jog. This time I decided on a paved bike/jog trail in a local canyonÖ which happens to go directly past an open public shooting range. As I jogged past, it sounded like WW3: pistols, rifles, assault rifles/semi-autos, etc. As outlandish as it may seem, I didnít notice anyone shooting indiscriminately at each other. I didnít note any bloodshed. Didnít see Rambo. No dirty Harry. No crazy Americans popping each other off just for the hell of it or out of boredom. I fact, I saw no dangerous behavior of any sort. Later, as I showered, I checked for bullet holes. I found none. Maybe itís just that gun owners around this area are responsible and safe, and that everywhere else in the U.S. they are raving, foaming-at-the-mouth lunatics bent on a daily quota of killings. But I donít think thatís the case. Kind of shoots holes in the Ďfetishí thing and disregarding safety, no?
 
Old 05-09-2009, 02:06 PM
 
2,681 posts, read 3,573,781 times
Reputation: 3088
Slavery. RPGs. Genoicde. Wow, the anti-gunners are really searching for anything they can grab to try and maintain some credability.

Let's look at some facts here:

Norway and Finland have More guns per capita than the US

Every male in Switzerland must own a automatic rifle

The state with no gun laws what-so-ever (Vermont) voted Barack and is one of the lowest crime states in the US.

But go ahead and keep squaking.....
 
Old 05-09-2009, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Here is a research project for you:

How many people were able to defend themselves with a firearm during that same period with it not resulting in their death?
I don't know and I don't care. Only 490 were NOT able to, and that is, to me, an insignificant number which I do not consider to be a risk worthy of bothering myself about. Not to the extent of maintaining an expensive, time-consuming, unappealing armory against the risk.

Let me ask you this. If you and I are both being cased, and are both known to be away from our empty houses, and you have an NRA decal in your window and I do not, whose house do you think burglars would break into? The one they could haul guns out of, of course. So, in addition to the cost of buying and maintaining and securing guns, you have the added cost of contracting with a state-of-the-art security firm, just to reduce your 3-in-a-million risk. I'm glad you're rich. I'm not.
 
Old 05-09-2009, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,116 posts, read 9,202,467 times
Reputation: 8988
Default A disarmed people cannot oppose immoral government

A disarmed people will not protect cowards from bullies.
A disarmed people will not protect harmless people from predators.
A disarmed people empower the criminals, in and out of government.

The only legitimate gun control = hitting what you aim at.

U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world's 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies.
But there are 230 million automobiles, too. Approximately 35,000 died in 2008. Where is the ban on "assault autos"?
In addition, almost 50% of gun related deaths were suicides. Granted, a gun is swift, but suicidal people will use whatever will get the job done - knives, razors, drugs, jumping from tall structures.

Let's be aware that the underlying issue of a gun ban is not "protection" of innocent people - but the empowerment of those who prey on the disarmed people.

From a site trying to end gun storage at home:
Swiss army gun law campaign (http://www.iansa.org/regions/europe/Swisscampaign.htm - broken link)
Military guns
There are about 200,000 Swiss men who undertake military service in annual courses of 2-4 weeks. They are permitted to keep their military weapon at home. ... A further 1.5 million military guns are estimated to belong to former militiamen.
----
1.7 million "assault rifles".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland
7.5 million population

1.7 million full auto military rifles / 7.5 million population = "armed to the teeth"

BUT THIS IS THE KICKER:
Guns, Crime, and the Swiss - by Stephen P. Halbrook
" In a word, Switzerland, which is awash in guns, has substantially lower murder and robbery rates than England, where most guns are banned.

" Besides the [Swiss] militia system requiring automatic rifles and/or semiautomatic pistols to be kept in the homes of all males aged 20 to 42, firearms are readily available for purchase in gun shops. Yet firearms are rarely used in violent crime. Notes Clinard, "These facts contrast strikingly with the belief that a low criminal homicide rate is due to strict firearms regulations." Homicide is tied to a willingness to resort to violence, not the mere presence of firearms..."
Restating:
A disarmed people will not protect cowards from bullies.
A disarmed people will not protect harmless people from predators.
A disarmed people empower the criminals, in and out of government.
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