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Old 05-09-2009, 05:51 PM
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,415,357 times
Reputation: 47455


Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948There is no need to immediately kill an intruder.
Only if he is under the influence of drugs will I immediately use (lethal) violence.
And only because drugs make people unpredictable.
Otherwise I'll always try to talk people down 1st before I decide to use violence.
And you don't need a firearm to use violence.
i sort of remember making this post its ok but was it in this thread?? i think another thread different OP example no????????
i dont think i would always try to talk someone down if i found them in the house armed and about to kill me, could you please produce the source of this quote. the quote looks like its trying to encourage people not to use guns to defend themsellves, not my intent.

Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 05-09-2009 at 06:04 PM..

Old 05-09-2009, 06:08 PM
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,321,196 times
Reputation: 2558
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Here is a research project for you:

How many people were able to defend themselves with a firearm during that same period with it not resulting in their death?

Depends on who's stats, anywhere from a few hundred thousand to several million. Its hard to tell because most times nobody gets hurt & it creates no sensation.

from my point of view one would be enough.
Old 05-09-2009, 06:12 PM
Location: MS
3,949 posts, read 3,855,603 times
Reputation: 1370
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Yes, now that that silly little snit seems to be over, let's get back on topic. Repeating my post:

According to FBI statistics, how many white Americans over the age of 25 were murdered by a stranger with a gun in 2006? ANS: 490. (The number over age 50 was 86. Less than two per average-sized state, like Missouri or Virginia.)

My chances it will happen to me are about three out of a million. Consider that a fast-lane lifestyle would account for a large share of those (not all victims are random) the odds are even more in my favor.

I don't feel that those odds make it worthwhile to invest several hundred dollars in a gun, learn how to use it better than a likely assailant, and properly maintain it and secure it,
Murder is just one of many crimes we are protecting ourselves and our families from. Assault, rape and robbery are a few of the others. Basically anything having a violent ending with us as a victim.

Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Here is a research project for you:

How many people were able to defend themselves with a firearm during that same period with it not resulting in their death?
The problem with finding out how many times a gun has stopped a potential crime is that many are never reported. Two examples involve family members of mine. A cousin was exiting the interstate and rolling up to a stop sign. He saw a man step out of the shadows and open the door of his vehicle. When the interior light of the vehicle came on, this man was staring down the barrel of a 9mm. he responded with "Sorry. Wrong car." and made a quick retreat. My uncle was pumping gas when a homeless looking man approached him and asked if he wanted to "buy a knife". This was an obvious attempt at intimidation approaching on robbery. My uncle calmly responded "Do you want to buy a gun?" while pulling his pistol from a holster in pants. The homeless looking man ran off. Neither incident was reported to the authorities. But both used their weapons to keep from becoming a victim.

Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You would really kill a man if he looked like he was going to steal your lawn mower, wouldn't you? How many people have you killed?
I know this was asked of Greatday, I'll answer as well. I wouldn't shoot anyone stealing my mower. I would follow them in my car as the mower has a top speed of 4mph. Break the plane of the door coming into my house and all bets are off. MS has a castle doctrine and I can use lethal force against anyone in my house that is not authorized to be there. Unlike Greatday, I have never had to shoot anyone but I was prepared to one night. With a man beating on my back door, I called 911. If he had made it in before the police had gotten there, I would have had no choice. Luckily for him, he was arrested.

Old 05-10-2009, 12:02 AM
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,518,646 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by ChrisC
Or maybe my point is that American gun fetishists all believe themselves to be Rambo or Dirty Harry.
Well, I'm back from my daily jog. This time I decided on a paved bike/jog trail in a local canyon… which happens to go directly past an open public shooting range. As I jogged past, it sounded like WW3: pistols, rifles, assault rifles/semi-autos, etc. As outlandish as it may seem, I didn’t notice anyone shooting indiscriminately at each other. I didn’t note any bloodshed. Didn’t see Rambo. No dirty Harry. No crazy Americans popping each other off just for the hell of it or out of boredom. I fact, I saw no dangerous behavior of any sort. Later, as I showered, I checked for bullet holes. I found none. Maybe it’s just that gun owners around this area are responsible and safe, and that everywhere else in the U.S. they are raving, foaming-at-the-mouth lunatics bent on a daily quota of killings. But I don’t think that’s the case. Kind of shoots holes in the ‘fetish’ thing and disregarding safety, no?
Gun fetishists still believe that guns will stop crime, without realising that organised crime (the smart ones anywayz) never acts alone.
It is all about numbers.

Besidez, American gun owners act as if they believe they are the Lone Ranger and that they can stop a crime in progress all on their own, while the police often requests back-up.
Furthermore, gun fetishists believe that whenever their lives are threatened all other laws and rules suddenly don't count anymore while police officers still have to obey certain regulations (like public safety for instance).
In short: American gun fetishists believe that rules and regulations that are applied to their police cannot be applied on them, which proves that they don’t give a damn about public safety.
BTW their simplistic philosophy that more guns on the street will only improve public safety is just plain false.

FYI shooting at a range gives you 0 combat experience, since the targets don't shoot back.
Old 05-10-2009, 12:28 AM
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,518,646 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker
Your thought process is that of a child. A stupid one at that.
A militia by definition is a group of armed civilians.
And my point, little 1, is that not every civilian should be armed.
No psychopath, drug addict or people suffering from hallucinations, depression, or stress should ever be armed.

FYI American criminal psychopaths still are American civilians.

That militia needs to be well regulated mostly so they can be controlled but also so they can be an effective fighting force.
And controlled by whom, my child?
The American government?
The American civilians?
The Sopranos?
Old 05-10-2009, 12:35 AM
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
The second amendment does not differentiate between citizens and non citizens, nor does any other phrase in the Bill of Rights. So every Mexican arrival, back still wet, has the same constitutional entitlement to bear arms as you or I. Which means, of course, that 12-million undocumented aliens from Mexico are perfectly free to regulate their own militia. Unless the several states enact laws to regulate them, which would drive gun nuts apoplectic.
Old 05-10-2009, 01:20 AM
919 posts, read 1,668,006 times
Reputation: 478
you really think that the 2nd or the constitution is for ILLEGALS? typical "progressive" thinking, really messed up. its one thing to treat an illegal with dignity and fairness. but that does not include gun rights. and when I say fairness, I means ship all the illegal, undocumented, kids an all out of my country. at gun point. held by an american citizen using HIS constitutional GOD given right to bear arms against them. Man Im glad I dont live in France.
Old 05-10-2009, 06:16 AM
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,518,646 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by mark6052
and when I say fairness, I means ship all the illegal, undocumented, kids an all out of my country.
It seems that you're unaware that your America is just a small part of MY world.
Old 05-10-2009, 06:42 AM
805 posts, read 1,742,860 times
Reputation: 381
As a gun owner, I can be convinced to turn them all in to the government...if and when they can show me with 100 percent certainty that I will never, ever need one, not for anything, in the remainder of my life.

Until then, it's nobody's business what guns I choose to own. I am not a criminal until they make me one, which, if they do, will be for no sane reason.
Old 05-10-2009, 07:39 AM
Location: Maine
2,349 posts, read 1,581,831 times
Reputation: 4200
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Don't put words in my mouth. My point is that you cannot provide me with a single instance in which the US government first registered anything, and then took it away. Which is the only thing I asked you to do.

Trust me---the US government does NOT have me fooled.
Here's an example for ya,
Shortly after the attack on Pearl harbor Japanese American citizens were asked to register themselves, not long after they had all of there Constitutional rights taken away.

I guess I can provide you with just one example!

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