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Originally Posted by GreatdayAnd you base this conclusion solely on the fact that I don't agree with you? Are you sure it isn't because you're convinced that I don't know squat about American culture, history and society?
I think he bases your failure to grasp reality on the fact that you think you could talk your way out of any possible scenerio. It doesn't work here in cyberspace & it sure will not work if you do find yourself or a loved one in dangers way.
You are correct only in that once you make decisive moves to protect yourself we can never know what the criminal would have done. However, its pretty much incumbent upon a person who wants to keep sucking breath to make his or her own decision instead of letting the criminal decide if they live or die. Why on earth would you let your life or death be decided by a criminal?
Your thought process is that of a child. A stupid one at that. A militia by definition is a group of armed civilians.
Actually, that's not quite true.
Second Amendment
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed. "
To most people, this amendment is assumed to mean citizens have the right to bear arms. And when government (municipal, state, or federal) passes laws that impair that assumed right, all "hail" breaks loose.
To decode the amendment, one needs to recognize that two distinct groups are being referenced: militia and people.
We should be aware that people are sovereign, while the militia are not.
Militia are defined as the male citizens liable for military duty, under command to fight, and die, if necessary, in defense of the people's inalienable right to life, liberty and property.
In other words, the militia have volunteered to be obligated to fight and die, on command. They do NOT have inalienable rights to life, liberty or property, if under the obligation to serve.
DUTIES of U.S. citizenship
Title 10 USC Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, CITIZENS of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
Title 50 USC Sec. 453. Registration (Selective Service)
(a)...it shall be the duty of every male CITIZEN of the United States, and every other male person RESIDING in the United States, who, on the day or days fixed for the first or any subsequent registration, is between the ages of eighteen and twenty-six, to present himself for and submit to registration at
such time or times and place or places, and in such manner, as shall be determined by proclamation of the President and by rules and regulations prescribed hereunder. ...
Originally Posted by Greatday LoL you pretend as if I didn't know he quoted some patriot.
I just see no difference between American patriotism and the patriotism of the countries your former government called the ashes of evil.
Just like the American patriots only care about Americans and America, they only care about their people and their country. Like you only care about your family and not the families of other Americans.
He does not want to disarm other Americans. Seems he believes everyone has the right to live & protect that life. It is you who only cares about yourself, as long as you feel secure its ok if others are helpless in the face of crime.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed. "
To most people, this amendment is assumed to mean citizens have the right to bear arms. And when government (municipal, state, or federal) passes laws that impair that assumed right, all "hail" breaks loose.
To decode the amendment, one needs to recognize that two distinct groups are being referenced: militia and people.
We should be aware that people are sovereign, while the militia are not.
Militia are defined as the male citizens liable for military duty, under command to fight, and die, if necessary, in defense of the people's inalienable right to life, liberty and property.
In other words, the militia have volunteered to be obligated to fight and die, on command. They do NOT have inalienable rights to life, liberty or property, if under the obligation to serve.
DUTIES of U.S. citizenship
Title 10 USC Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, CITIZENS of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
Title 50 USC Sec. 453. Registration (Selective Service)
(a)...it shall be the duty of every male CITIZEN of the United States, and every other male person RESIDING in the United States, who, on the day or days fixed for the first or any subsequent registration, is between the ages of eighteen and twenty-six, to present himself for and submit to registration at
such time or times and place or places, and in such manner, as shall be determined by proclamation of the President and by rules and regulations prescribed hereunder. ...
You are splitting hairs but even in your quote it reads,
Quote:
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, CITIZENS of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
Thats all of us, civilians & armed. The peoples right to keep & bear arms is not to be infringed because, for one thing if it is the militia law is meaningless, but as stated by the SCOTUS in the Heller case it goes beyond that & covers personal protection as well.
Militia service is also not voluntary if you are a citizen. Ironically its really against the law NOT to own serviceable arms and anybody reading what you just posted should clearly understand that the dreaded assault weapons are protected as well since the militia is suposed to be an effective fighting force if called up. Almost seems its against the law not to own assault weapons.
]"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed. "
DUTIES of U.S. citizenship ]
The guarantees of the Bill of Rights apply to each, every and all persons, regardless of citizenship, who are for any reason under the jurisdiction of the government of the United States of America, which is enjoined from infringing the rights of said people to keep and bear arms.
As I said last night, every alien in the USA possesses every right of the Bill of Rights, until said ailen, with due process, is proven beyond reasonable doubt to be disentitled to such protection.
This means the 12-million Mexicans in the USA whose immigration status is not yet proven illegal in a court of law, have a right to bear arms, and in fact, to form a regulated militia (if they declare intention to become cirizens). Presumably, a self-regulated (but unorganized) militia, since the 2nd Amendment proscribes any government agancy from regulating the use of firearms in any manner.
You gun nuts keep waving the Bill of Rights in our faces, so wave this. Every person in the USA is presumed innocent until proven guilty. An alien is not an illegal alien until, with full due process, he is proven beyond reasonable doubt to be illegal. Until then, his second amendment rights shall not be infringed.
Any more questions about the Bill of Rights?
The problem I have with gun nuts is that they think they can use the 2nd Amendment to forcibly deny other people, at gunpoint, their 5th, 6th and 7th Amendment rights. That sounds a little bit hypocritical to me.
The Bill of Rights is a bill of limitations on the Federal government, and upon those who swore an oath to it. It has no legal force and effect upon those who are not part of the compact.
Rights existed before the institution of government. And pursuant to the Declaration of Independence, governments are instituted among men to (a) secure rights, and (b) govern those who consent.
The whole problem of "illegal immigration" is tied to access to socialist benefits (freebies) without concurrent obligation to pay for them.
If there was no socialism (nor socialist taxes) there would be no inherent advantage to hire undocumented laborers, thus eliminating the major attraction - jobs.
Likewise, if the parasitical burden of socialism was taken from the backs of American labor and industry, imports would soon lose their advantage.
Ultimately, the blame for the flood of illegals lies with the government, and socialism.
Why are you referring to citizenship, which is not referenced in the amendment?
The guarantees of the Bill of Rights apply to each, every and all persons, regardless of citizenship, who are for any reason under the jurisdiction of the government of the United States of America, which is enjoined from infringing the rights of said people to keep and bear arms.
As I said last night, every alien in the USA possesses every right of the Bill of Rights, until said ailen, with due process, is proven beyond reasonable doubt to be disentitled to such protection.
This means the 12-million Mexicans in the USA whose immigration status is not yet finalized in a court of law, have a right to bear arms, and in fact, to form a regulated militia.
Nope, they forfiet that right when they become federal fugitives. Criminals lose many rights.
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, CITIZENS of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
Thats all of us, civilians & armed. The peoples right to keep & bear arms is not to be infringed because, for one thing if it is the militia law is meaningless, but as stated by the SCOTUS in the Heller case it goes beyond that & covers personal protection as well.
Militia service is also not voluntary if you are a citizen. Ironically its really against the law NOT to own serviceable arms and anybody reading what you just posted should clearly understand that the dreaded assault weapons are protected as well since the militia is suposed to be an effective fighting force if called up. Almost seems its against the law not to own assault weapons.
Summary:
American people are sovereigns.
U.S. citizens are subjects.
Citizens come from the people, but all people are not citizens.
If you are unaware of the distinction, you may be mislead to assume that "citizens" and "people" are synonymous.
If you are aware of the distinction, and read the pertinent laws, you will find that Congress has never, ever impaired the rights of the people to bear arms (firearms). But citizens *(subjects) have been denied the privilege, and are restricted in many aspects.
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Are you sure it isn't because you're convinced that I don't know squat about American culture, history and society?
Like you only care about your family and not the families of other Americans.
