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Old 05-11-2009, 06:06 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,318,833 times
Reputation: 2558

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Boy that would kind of put a damper on the nighttime activities wouldn't it. I think I'll pass if that service is ever available.

I dunno, we got a couple hotties on the force,
course my wife might not like the idea much. Crap, I guess I'll keep the guns.

 
Old 05-11-2009, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,357,433 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
I dunno, we got a couple hotties on the force,
course my wife might not like the idea much. Crap, I guess I'll keep the guns.
What? Doesn't she have any sense of humor???
 
Old 05-11-2009, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,061,524 times
Reputation: 3717
Default A demo of debatin' skills

A few comments:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCreass View Post
I didn't read all 10,000 words of your post --

Of course not. The usual attack strategy of the anti-gunner is to initiate some debate with their points, but they are only capable of reading short quippy answers. I've tried that in the past; I'll re-post a short quippy answer you can perhaps manage to get all the way through just as a test:

You're wrong; I'm right.

There. work for you? No? Well then, let's move on. Unfortunately for your short attention span, when I've got something to say, I do it logically, step-wise, and in detail, refuting you point by point. Must be frustratin' for yah, huh?


your CD posting name is enough to convince me which side of the fence you sit on, which is fine, and I respect that, but you don't seem to respect those who don't feel the same way about guns.

Nope. Wrong right off the bat! You raised specific points on an open on-line forum, and yet you don't want to hear my point-by-point refutation. What gives? You'd rather we send you the bronze statuette and applaud you?

As to ad-hominems about folks' online aliases ("names", for you, to keep it simple) you know nothing about me, but it has been very interesting, over time, to see people grasp at straws just because of a name. As an engineer, ecologist and now gunsmith, I probably know a bit more about this subject than you'll ever care to bother learning, both technically and politically. It positions me in a more knowledgeable position than you. Must be intimidating, huh? To have your mistaken concepts debated openly?

You also admitted "re-hashing", so why should I (or anyone) bother reading the same points that have been made on CD a million and one times by hundreds of people with a 17th century chip on their shoulders, just like you?

Because you haven't read them in the past, else you wouldn't say the things you've posted? That could be why I and others "re-hash". Get it?

I'm just looking back over my points, about how it's been proven by 21st century staisticians, that gun registration has a reverse effect on crime. You can't counter that (How exactly does one counter the truth? Unless, of course, they choose to outright-lie?) so you resort to ad-hominems about my alias name.

You made a point about how a lone citizen couldn't take on the military, and I showed you how that argument doesn't hold water, and where it's been proven to not work. I'm also reminded of a rather famous story about the entire British Military Red-Coats, helped by the French and some indians, losing to a bunch of simple-minded American citizens who had, on their side, passion.

You, apparently, dismiss such passion about one's country.

Then you make a comment about us owning rocket launchers. Great.


Just skimming it was enough to prove that your post was nothing more than an elaborate rant about how terrible the gun laws are in other countries, socialism (and how you "escaped" its evil clutches), equating gun ownership with freedom and the usual glorification of violence and weaponry.

And your point? Apparently you actually understood mine exactly, and got my point. You're welcome! But, if I'm ever debating directly with you, I'll try to keep my rants less "elaborate", with fewer multi-syllabic words, etc.

If you don't like the way other countries do things, don't go to those countries; no one is forcing you and with an attitude like yours, you'd be about as welcome as an ant infestation, so my advice to you is to just stay put and everything will be just fine.
Where, in my post, did I ever say I wanted to go there? I'm also a dual Canuck citizen, but they're too far gone right now for me to ever want to go back. Fortunately for them, they are snuggled tightly up against the US, who have provided them a military protective umbrella for over 75 years.

You don't seem to want to allow the use of "examples", of where other countries have gone wrong. Not allowed to discuss, for example, Russia or Germany under Hitler even if someone were to suggest that excessive communism or national socialism are "GREAT!"? Your debating skills must be legendary!

You're right off the track here, and everyone can see it. I also note others' responses to your subesequent posts, so tough luck, huh?
 
Old 05-11-2009, 07:49 PM
 
30 posts, read 47,065 times
Reputation: 25
Taking guns away from law abiding Americans is not a very good Idea and not realistic. If this were to occur we'd all be screwed. All the criminals who own guns illegally wou not only hold this country under siege but they would have a wider selection of them to choose from. As far as automatic weapons go I'm on the fence. I can be more accurate with a semi automatic rifle or hand gun. Yea, you may be able to spray alot of lead but I'm actually goin to be acually hitting my target.......Hmmmmmmmmm
 
Old 05-11-2009, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,523,609 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1969 View Post
If you feel there is almost zero possibility of an encounter with an armed criminal, then why do you feel threatened by law-abiding gun owners and want to disarm them?

Something is amiss...
I feel threatened by people who think having a gun ready at hand is the most important thing in their lives. Not really threatened, I just feel uncomfortable in a society where there are so many people who have this fixation, and who feel obliged to shout so loudly about it every time the subject of guns arises. I also feel uncomfortable in a society where there are people who have the same kinds of single-minded fixation about gays, minorities, welfare, property rights . . . It's just not healthy for society to have so many people screaming so loudly about single issues that are a lot less threatening then they imagine they are.

Nobody is trying to take your guns away. Period. Nobody. Least of all, me. There may be people who think your have overarmed yourself with weapons that far exceed self-protective utility, and you don't really need 10,000 rounds of ammo to deter a prowler. There may be people who think it would be a good idea for gun owners to be accountable for their awful fire power. But nobody is trying to take them away and leave you defenseless. The people who say they are, are delusional and paranoid, and I suggest you stop reading their websites, except for entertainment value.
 
Old 05-11-2009, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,523,609 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by cp1969 View Post
If you feel there is almost zero possibility of an encounter with an armed criminal, then why do you feel threatened by law-abiding gun owners and want to disarm them?

Something is amiss...
I feel threatened by people who think having a gun ready at hand is the most important thing in their lives. Not really threatened, I just feel uncomfortable in a society where there are so many people who have this fixation, and who feel obliged to shout so loudly about it every time the subject of guns arises. I also feel uncomfortable in a society where there are people who have the same kinds of single-minded fixation about gays, minorities, welfare, property rights . . . It's just not healthy for society to have so many people screaming so loudly about single issues that are a lot less threatening then they imagine they are.

Nobody is trying to take your guns away. Period. Nobody. Least of all, me. There may be people who think your have overarmed yourself with weapons that have no self-protective usefulness, or that 10,000 rounds of ammunition is more than needed to deter a prowler. There may be people who think it would be a good idea for gun owners to be accountable for their awful fire power. But nobody is trying to take them away and leave you defenseless. The people who say there are, are delusional and paranoid, and I suggest you stop reading their websites, except for entertainment value.

lI rarely reply to posts here merely because I disagree with them. When I reply to a post, it is usually because the argument presented is illogical or irrational or not based on any discernible fact or reality. I challenge people not to convince me that they have the correct opinion, but that they have arrived at that opinion through a good objective process.
 
Old 05-12-2009, 01:44 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,514,836 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker
Quote:
What, talking nonsense?
Just because you're too ignorant to understand what I'm saying is it nonsense.
But I understand why ya would call it nonsense.

Quote:
I get it perfectly. There is always inherent danger in being alive. A free man is permited access to the tools best suited to defending against that danger.
The best tool suited for this would be a WMD to eliminate potential danger before they even occur.

Let me paint the picture for ya so it will be easy for ya to grasp.
If everyone has a gun it does nothing to enhance public safety.
You arm yourself with a gun?
A criminal will bring a grenade?
You bring a grenade?
He gets a tank.
In the end you've done nothing about the problem at all.
Armament is only a symptom of the disease and all you want to do is combat the symptom instead of the cause.
If people wanna arm themselves with guns because they don't trust their government then they simply should stop electing a government.
If the people can't trust the fact that they can vote into office a government that will adequately represent them, having a government becomes moot.

Quote:
lol, silly boy. You are electing the next despot right now by refusing to enable yourself & your countrymen the means of fighting back.
Right, I forgot that you guys haven't really elected Dubya into power because he stole votes in Florida.
Not very democratic btw.

Quote:
The police have a duty only to preserve order the best they can.
So you are implyin' that the police should only protect a small group over a large group.
 
Old 05-12-2009, 04:34 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,318,833 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
What? Doesn't she have any sense of humor???

About most things, armed women under my bed she might not be such a good sport about.
 
Old 05-12-2009, 04:51 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,318,833 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker Just because you're too ignorant to understand what I'm saying is it nonsense.
But I understand why ya would call it nonsense.
How about we have a poll on the most clueless poster in this thread?

Quote:
The best tool suited for this would be a WMD to eliminate potential danger before they even occur.
A great example of nonsense

Quote:
Let me paint the picture for ya so it will be easy for ya to grasp.
If everyone has a gun it does nothing to enhance public safety.
On what do you base this? Your imagination? Its a matter of historical fact that crime was lower BEFORE gun control was as it is now. I dont think that one has much to do with the other but if any conclusion can be drawn its that guns certainly dont increase crime.

Quote:
You arm yourself with a gun?
A criminal will bring a grenade?
You bring a grenade?
He gets a tank.
As I said, you talk nonsense.

Quote:
In the end you've done nothing about the problem at all.
The problem is gun control.

Quote:
Armament is only a symptom of the disease and all you want to do is combat the symptom instead of the cause.
More nonsense. Theres much more to gun ownership than crime & much more to personal saftey than any one type of criminal.

Quote:
If people wanna arm themselves with guns because they don't trust their government then they simply should stop electing a government.
Wow, you get worse with every statement. If YOU trust your gov't you should ask yourself why they relocated your family against their will.

Quote:
If the people can't trust the fact that they can vote into office a government that will adequately represent them, having a government becomes moot.
More nonsense. The way a democratic republic works is you vote for who best represents the change you want. Sometimes the elected gov't will represent your desires & sometimes it wont. THAT silly boy is why a gov't needs a constitution or some other guiding limitations.

Quote:
Right, I forgot that you guys haven't really elected Dubya into power because he stole votes in Florida.
Not very democratic btw.
More nonsense

Quote:
So you are implyin' that the police should only protect a small group over a large group.
Still more nonsense. The police are there to keep order the best they can. Generally they & the gov't in general will protect a large group over a small group. The reality however is that generally they protect no group. They prosecute people that victimize innocents AFTER the fact. Thats not protection, thats prosecution. So, you get justice if they steal your car. But if they kill your wife because you trusted your gov't to protect her, she is still dead. Personal protection is YOUR business. If you dont think it can happen thats your affair, I hope it never does, but its pretty sad for you to impose your delusional view of reality on others when it unquestionably creates victims.

What I'm really implying is that you obviously know the foolishness of your untenable position & only cling to it because to do otherwise would be to admit that you are simply a puppet on a string.

Last edited by Tin Knocker; 05-12-2009 at 05:06 AM..
 
Old 05-12-2009, 05:03 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,318,833 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I feel threatened by people who think having a gun ready at hand is the most important thing in their lives. Not really threatened, I just feel uncomfortable in a society where there are so many people who have this fixation, and who feel obliged to shout so loudly about it every time the subject of guns arises. I also feel uncomfortable in a society where there are people who have the same kinds of single-minded fixation about gays, minorities, welfare, property rights . . . It's just not healthy for society to have so many people screaming so loudly about single issues that are a lot less threatening then they imagine they are.
You are a funny person. I doubt anybody here thinks a gun is the most important thing in their lives. Just as most people who complain about the other things you listed probably have other things important to them. How can you think that people only care about single issues?

Quote:
Nobody is trying to take your guns away. Period. Nobody. Least of all, me. There may be people who think your have overarmed yourself with weapons that far exceed self-protective utility, and you don't really need 10,000 rounds of ammo to deter a prowler. There may be people who think it would be a good idea for gun owners to be accountable for their awful fire power. But nobody is trying to take them away and leave you defenseless. The people who say they are, are delusional and paranoid, and I suggest you stop reading their websites, except for entertainment value.
I guess the websites to be avoided would be most democratic politicians websites. We should ignore the desires & spoken vows of elected officials because they are delusional & paranoid? We should view liberal politics as entertainment?

Gun owners are responsible for their "aweful firepower" Much more so than the police & gov't agencies. Cant say I'v ever heard of civilians killing like the gov't did in Waco & getting away without a single prosecution. Or shooting a woman in the head while she held an infant in her arms like they did to Randy Weavers wife. We the people are always held accountable, and should be. With rights come responsibility.
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