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Old 05-18-2009, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,523,609 times
Reputation: 35864

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
Eric Holder.

As far as I know, Holder has only addressed himself to a partial restriction on handguns. But he has said a lot of things, so help us out a little bit here. Give us the quote by Holder in which he says all guns ought to be taken away from all civilians.

 
Old 05-18-2009, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,538,721 times
Reputation: 24548
A gunfree America would be an unbelievably violent America as the thugs realized they could attack without any chance of instant reprisal. Not a place I would want to live.
 
Old 05-18-2009, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,523,609 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
A gunfree America would be an unbelievably violent America as the thugs realized they could attack without any chance of instant reprisal. Not a place I would want to live.
I don't follow your thinking. Wouldn't the thugs also be reduced to the same attack devices that their prey would have to protect themselves? If a thug has to attack me with a rock, I can have a rock, too. Which would not give the thug any more of an advantage than both of us having guns.
 
Old 05-18-2009, 09:20 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,341 posts, read 10,898,841 times
Reputation: 12285
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I don't follow your thinking. Wouldn't the thugs also be reduced to the same attack devices that their prey would have to protect themselves? If a thug has to attack me with a rock, I can have a rock, too. Which would not give the thug any more of an advantage than both of us having guns.
The simple point you seem to be missing , is that a thug can get a gun, whereas you would advocate a law abiding citizen will not. The goblins will not be reduced to a ball bat to accomplish their goals. They don't get their guns from the local gun store, with all the required paperwork and criminal/mental background checks etc. Oh, they will be very well armed despite any laws saying they can't be, while the honest guy, who follows the law and finds the thought of prison ...distasteful...must meekly submit to criminal will or be shot dead. Kind of a two edged sword for the regular guy.
 
Old 05-18-2009, 09:25 AM
 
536 posts, read 1,644,896 times
Reputation: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I don't follow your thinking. Wouldn't the thugs also be reduced to the same attack devices that their prey would have to protect themselves? If a thug has to attack me with a rock, I can have a rock, too. Which would not give the thug any more of an advantage than both of us having guns.
No, he is saying that those thugs would still have guns and I agree. Taking away guns will not affect illegal gun ownership just as it doesn't affect buying drugs or anything else that is illegal.

It may make it more difficult for someone to buy a gun off the street but it will probably create a new "drug" that is smuggled into the US. Afterall, drug dealers have to protect themselves from other drug dealers

I would even go so far as to say people would start to make their own firearms. zip guns, you name it.

We can't even get drugs off the streets. Let's disarm the responsible citizen.
 
Old 05-18-2009, 09:29 AM
 
Location: MS
3,949 posts, read 3,853,872 times
Reputation: 1370
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
NRA has no competition for members. Also, NRA has no obligations and tangible benefits (Magazine subscription)Competition -
GOA

I have two NRA related magazines delivered on a regular basis. NRA Publications 2008

I have additional insurance on my weapons for free as well as numerous discounts available to me. I consider those tangible benefits. Check out their site. You won't accidentally get shot by the web site.

Is the NRA a perfect organization? No. But it is the largest and most well known that is dedicated to standing up to those who want to interpret the 2nd amendment in their own way. If the the anti-gun groups disappeared today, the NRA could go back to promoting shooting sports and safety like they did when they started 122 years ago.

-Robert
 
Old 05-18-2009, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 33,322,966 times
Reputation: 7038
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I don't follow your thinking. Wouldn't the thugs also be reduced to the same attack devices that their prey would have to protect themselves? If a thug has to attack me with a rock, I can have a rock, too. Which would not give the thug any more of an advantage than both of us having guns.
I don't really follow the thinking either since we've been trying to achieve a "drug-free America" for quite a while now. You do see a lot of straight and sober doctors, lawyers, managers, working stiffs, etc. etc. but a lot of people who choose to live outside the law and a thriving infrastructure to provide the banned commodities to those people. I know its a tired argument, but a gun ban would have little effect on anyone other than those who live within the law.

If this nation were serious about eliminating 80% of the gun violence (as opposed to achieving a disarmed civilian population) it would legalize all drugs and cut the black-market commodities infrastructure out of the equation entirely (not to mention raise enough taxes to cover universal health care).

Regarding Holder:

I'm obviously exaggerating his position, but he deserves a great deal more notoriety than he received for that awful red-herring statement about restricting U.S. gun sales to curb Mexican violence (that is NOT our yob). This administration does have a very specific agenda to promote with regard to American guns and it is absolutely true that a ban on all guns would be the culmination of "1000 cuts" rather than sweeping legislation.

Just for grins, google CIFTA. Its a very alarming scenario to those of us who could be affected, particularly reloaders since they are on the cusp of being labeled "Illicit Arms Manufacturers". The GOA has a decent analysis on their website, albeit not entirely unbiased.
 
Old 05-18-2009, 09:47 AM
 
Location: MS
3,949 posts, read 3,853,872 times
Reputation: 1370
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I don't follow your thinking. Wouldn't the thugs also be reduced to the same attack devices that their prey would have to protect themselves?
Most thugs would be reduced to using knives. So now when they attack Granny, it will be a hand-to-hand combat between a young man (or worman) and an 80 year old woman (I picked that age at random). So instead of pulling the trigger on a shotgun which is pretty easy, she will have to get up from her wheelchair and fight it out with her assailant.

The more enterprising thugs will be using improvised firearms. They don't care if they are illegal. An improvised single shot shotgun can be built in any garage with simple power tools. Plans are all over the 'net for guns ranging from the model 1911 (.45 caliber semi-automatic pistol) to a an AR-15 (full military specs) to a .50 BMG. These require at minimum a $500 milling machine and the appropriate cutters. Illegal gun manufacturing will become the new meth labs without the hazardous chemicals.

-Robert
 
Old 05-18-2009, 10:10 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 12,896,672 times
Reputation: 8127
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I don't follow your thinking. Wouldn't the thugs also be reduced to the same attack devices that their prey would have to protect themselves? If a thug has to attack me with a rock, I can have a rock, too. Which would not give the thug any more of an advantage than both of us having guns.

Do you really think thugs would not have weapons just cuz it was illegal ?

Many of the thugs that get arrested for shooting someone already have a rap sheet of felonies.

---Felons---are not allowed to own or possess firearms ,yet we still see them doing it.

The solution is to crack down on ANYONE who commits a crime while using a firearm. Why is that approach considered to be anti "pc" ?

Just recently our county sherriff dept was on the radio ( crimestopper program) stating they were offering a reward for 2 home burglars.

They stated they held the couple at gunpoint while they asked info and robbed the house.

home burglary ???????????
(they should be wanted for committing a crime with a gun and thus face a harsh sentence for using that gun as part of the burglary )
 
Old 05-18-2009, 10:36 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,341 posts, read 10,898,841 times
Reputation: 12285
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
Do you really think thugs would not have weapons just cuz it was illegal ?

Many of the thugs that get arrested for shooting someone already have a rap sheet of felonies.

---Felons---are not allowed to own or possess firearms ,yet we still see them doing it.

The solution is to crack down on ANYONE who commits a crime while using a firearm. Why is that approach considered to be anti "pc" ?

Just recently our county sherriff dept was on the radio ( crimestopper program) stating they were offering a reward for 2 home burglars.

They stated they held the couple at gunpoint while they asked info and robbed the house.

home burglary ???????????
(they should be wanted for committing a crime with a gun and thus face a harsh sentence for using that gun as part of the burglary )
Many such laws are on the books. NV has a special clause that adds much stiffer penalties for use of a firearm in commission of a crime and if the perp gets shot by the intended victim while attempting to use a gun for mischief, well, thats too bad. This is a good thing
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