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Old 05-18-2009, 10:48 AM
 
Location: California, again...
232 posts, read 745,541 times
Reputation: 157

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Besidez, the problem is ..... tried to push their brand of democracy to people who don't want it.
Look at your own point please. Whether it is gun control, sexual relations, religous beliefs, what you eat or what you wear there are always those who believe they know better than anyone else what you should or should not be doing.

The reality is that as long as the other person is not in your personal space infriging on you in some way or harming an innocent the rule SHOULD be, shut up and mind your own business.

If someone is harmed then the person responsible and only the person responsible should be punished, HARSHLY. The problem isn't that people do bad things, it is that the persons doing those bad things are not deterred by the consequences of their actions. We pander to our prisoners because somewhere along the line it was decided that people who did very bad things to others needed to have THEIR rights considered....

Just my 2 cents.

Vesper

 
Old 05-18-2009, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,547,847 times
Reputation: 24548
The major political point of gun (weapons) control is to create a disarmed and frightened society that will never threaten the oligarchy ruling their lives. This effectively reduces travel and opportunities for political discussion. The criminal class is used to reinforcement the fear.

We do not have a drug free America because even our relatively democratic powers that be do not want to have a drug free America. Too many of them and too many police departments are using the drug criminals as excuses to extort even more money and rights from free thinking citizens. An active drug culture centered in the poverty stricken urban and rural locales also suppresses investment that might change these places from landlord or mining company dominated tyrannies into prosperous politically free places to live. Unenforced immigration laws also serve the oligarchies by providing a nearly unlimited source of illegal nearly slave workers, often the drug smugglers, at very low cost.

When the laws of the US are fragrantly being broken it pays to look at who benefits from the illegal activity and who would be economically harmed by strict enforcement of the law. In Dirty Harry’s words, “Follow the money.”
 
Old 05-18-2009, 10:53 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,319,821 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I don't follow your thinking. Wouldn't the thugs also be reduced to the same attack devices that their prey would have to protect themselves? If a thug has to attack me with a rock, I can have a rock, too. Which would not give the thug any more of an advantage than both of us having guns.

What about when that thug is big & strong & wants to victimize an old man, or woman?
 
Old 05-18-2009, 10:57 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,319,821 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Your ignorance is showing again.

Yeah sure thing.
The fact is most every independent democratic country has followed our lead, yours included. Or the one you were taken to.

If we went a world leader you wouldn't be worried about what we do, just as I dont care what you do. You dont matter, we do. Get over it.

Our biggest flaw has been looking to socialist europe for guidence the past few decades, usually when Democrats are in charge.
 
Old 05-18-2009, 11:18 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,296 posts, read 9,975,609 times
Reputation: 9075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesper View Post

The reality is that as long as the other person is not in your personal space infriging on you in some way or harming an innocent the rule SHOULD be, shut up and mind your own business.


Vesper
+1000

Exactly.
 
Old 05-18-2009, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post
GOA

I have two NRA related magazines delivered on a regular basis. NRA Publications 2008

I have additional insurance on my weapons for free as well as numerous discounts available to me. I consider those tangible benefits. Check out their site. You won't accidentally get shot by the web site.

Is the NRA a perfect organization? No. But it is the largest and most well known that is dedicated to standing up to those who want to interpret the 2nd amendment in their own way. If the the anti-gun groups disappeared today, the NRA could go back to promoting shooting sports and safety like they did when they started 122 years ago.

-Robert
I worded my sentence ambiguously. I meant it has no obligations and it DOES have tangible benefits. Which, together, make it attractive to potential membership drives.

"that is dedicated to standing up to those who want to interpret the 2nd amendment in their own way"

Why is it not true also to say " that is dedicated to interpreting the 2nd amendment in their own way"?

I am also dedicated to standing up to people who I think are wrong. Does that make me as meritorious as the NRA?
 
Old 05-18-2009, 01:54 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,319,821 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
I am also dedicated to standing up to people who I think are wrong. Does that make me as meritorious as the NRA?
Not even remotely. Nothing the NRA does has a negative effect on anyones Constitutional rights.
Theres no required obligation to join The Brady campaign or any other anti freedom group. All you need do is send them money & hope they actually do something you like or want, usually to restrict someone elses rights.
The NRA on the other hand not only supports the second amendment, they also do many other beneficial things for the members & the public at large. Their training is accepted universally for pistol permits & they train many profesionals as well. They are primarily an educational organization & only got into politics because of the obvious infringements being placed upon law abiding gun owners, the people who actually support them. We didn't dream them up because someone tried to Kill a president as is the case with the Brady bunch. The NRA was founded simply because of the need for organized firearm training programs. If the Brady bunch et al stopped getting support from clueless antigun fruitcakes the NRA could put much more effort into education & saftey and actually save lives thru preventative training initiatives.
But, its always been ok for people to needlessly get hurt, victimized & killed in the name of gun control, dont expect this to change anytime soon.
 
Old 05-18-2009, 02:14 PM
 
Location: MS
3,949 posts, read 3,854,688 times
Reputation: 1370
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I meant it has no obligations
What obligations should it have? I support them with money from my membership. I have given additional money outside of my membership. I did plan on attending the local banquet but wedding anniversary plans got in the way. And that was my decision not my wife's. She still wanted to attend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Why is it not true also to say " that is dedicated to interpreting the 2nd amendment in their own way"?
I can agree with that. That being said, I don't believe the militia clause of the amendment is strictly for protection against an tyrannical government. The militia is needed any time the population is in need of protection at a moment's notice. Both the Oregon and Maryland militia were called up during WWII. I think that post hurricane New Orleans would have been a safer place with a militia. I'm not talking about armed citizens roaming the streets looking for looters to shoot. I'm talking about groups of individuals protecting their neighborhood property and the people in the neighborhood that can't protect themselves. We have already seen that the .gov can't respond in a timely fashion and why should they. What happened to being self reliant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I am also dedicated to standing up to people who I think are wrong. Does that make me as meritorious as the NRA?
I didn't say the NRA was meritorious. In fact some of their press releases border on fear-mongering. I think it is a calculated move to get the less than enthusiastic supporters behind them. It is no different than the anti-gun groups getting their people mobilized. For example, a few months ago when the Mexican guns and drugs issue was a hot topic, they had no problem saying that 90% of the confiscated guns in Mexico came from the US (link). Well, it turns out that only a fraction of those guns were checked and 90% of those came from the US (link (http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/lapierre_rips_gun_ban_bid/2009/04/20/204881.html - broken link)). What we didn't find out was the number of those guns that were legally sold to the Mexican .gov and police that ended up in the wrong hands due to the rampant corruption down there. Were there any retractions or corrections released? No. Did the media apoligize for using incorrect information? No. Meritorious - No. Understand their methods and what they are up against - Yes.

-Robert
 
Old 05-18-2009, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,538,289 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post
What obligations should it have?
Who said you SHOULD have obligations?

Some organizations imply to their membership that they expect activism from them. Some dont. The NRA is one that doesn't. Thats one of the reasons it has so many more members than the ACLU.

To use your words, "the less than enthusiastic members" are the ones who swell the NRA ranks, and do not swell the ACLU ranks.

Of course the NRA is a "special interest" group. Does it take a position on motorcycle helmet laws or medical marijuana or strip mining mountain tops? Of course it's a "lobby group"---do they have paid staffers whose job it is to lobby congress? Nobody is "wrong" then they use either of those term to describe the NRA.

Last edited by jtur88; 05-18-2009 at 02:46 PM..
 
Old 05-18-2009, 02:46 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,341 posts, read 10,902,291 times
Reputation: 12285
Something I find greatly perplexing on the gun rights threads is how many people are simply terrified of firearms and people who own them.. They attach this stigma to us and seem so worried about the fact that we own guns. As if us merely owning firearms is a lit fuse leading to a pile of unstable explosives. I guess I'm so used to being around guns that I just don't give their presence much thought and when someone goes buggy when they see a rifle in my truck rack or something I just have to wonder what their problem is. Hoplophobia. Total irrational fear. These types are so fond of terms like 'gun nut' etc and call firearms owners 'paranoid' and 'delusional' and even go so far as to accuse US of irrational fears. They go on and on about how we are just sitting in our homes fondling our guns and quivering in fear that someones out to get us.. They haven't looked in the mirror lately. These folks spend an awful lot of time obsessing over what other people are doing to throw out such labels. I have to wonder just who the real fraidy cats are. It bemuses me how people could be so afraid of a mechanical device. Do firearms get misused? Yes. Just like cars, knives, ball bats,( lol, the latter being a favorite tool of many a thug) and to many other things to list.
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