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Old 05-22-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,340 posts, read 10,916,474 times
Reputation: 12291

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No inanimate mechanical device has ever been so demonized as the firearm. It's interesting. It's a device, with a few moving parts, designed to launch a projectile. Functionally no different than a bow and arrow other than rate of fire and type of projectile used. Yet, some type of evil persona has been attached to the firearm. As if, on it's own, it is capable of directing a persons actions. Exerting some type of mental control by it's mere presence. It's as if the simple act of owning a firearm will turn normal human emotion into cold blooded murder in the wink of an eye. Odd...........

 
Old 05-22-2009, 01:39 PM
 
594 posts, read 1,143,332 times
Reputation: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by rarch View Post
Would a gun free USA be possible for the USA or just a ideal of pacifists, and religous types or would this mark the US becoming a moral and decent society if this were to occur

I would rather see a USA with abolished religion, no freedom of speech (Hooray, no more media!), no rights to assemble or protest the govt.

Likewise, the government should be able to arrest and imprison debtors and anyone who spoke out against it. Moreover, the military should have preference as to where they are housed and should be able to arbitrarily select the nicest homes to stay in. I mean, they are the ones who are protecting us after all.

Further, the government should be able to spy on its citizens' emails, communications via phone, computer, television, and personal letters. Then, the government should seize peoples' property at will and for the benefit of the state.

The State should not serve the people, instead the people should serve the needs and wants of the state.

BIG SMILE, BIG SMILE, BIG SMILE!
 
Old 05-22-2009, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,613,725 times
Reputation: 35875
NV, the interesting thing about the firearm is that the thing itself is perfectly harmless --- it's the bullet that comes out of it. And when the bullet comes out of it, that bullet has a mind of its own. It goes where it wants and does what it wants, and there is no human will that can do anything about it.
 
Old 05-22-2009, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,613,725 times
Reputation: 35875
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX Homeboy View Post
Then, the government should seize peoples' property at will and for the benefit of the state.
!
You got your wish, on that one. The well-regulated militia just stood there and watched them take it.
 
Old 05-22-2009, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,194 posts, read 17,699,095 times
Reputation: 7981
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
when the bullet comes out of it, that bullet has a mind of its own. It goes where it wants and does what it wants,
wrong
 
Old 05-22-2009, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,070,360 times
Reputation: 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Ask parents who are afraid to let their children come in a gun-owner's house, not me. Someone posted that there are such people, and all I did was try to read their minds and see what their rationale might be for feeling that way. A mental exercise that you are completely incapable of doing because you don't give a sweet crap about what anybody else thinks or what motivates the behavior of anybody else. You'd rather resort to rage than reason, as you just did in your response. What happens when a man armed with a deadly firearm prefers to resort to rage instead of reason? Kids don't come over, that's what.

You have just proven that you have no interest whatsoever in engaging in any reasoned discussion here about anything. All you want to do is rant and rave against any person who dares to try to explore reasons why some people might raise their kids the way they do. Go back and read what I said, and think (if you can) for a minute about what I did say, and then look at how you respnded to ME, after I merely suggested what some people might think in a particular circumstance.

hey NV; I thnink you must have twigged a raw, eposesd nerve here!
Knowing you a bit as I do, you just haven't struck me as a knee-jerk reactionary, but then perhaps it's just my own brand of rabid, frothy-mouthed posts that puts me in the same holding cell as you, fur as ol jtr thinks.

As a severely disabled (arthritis) but once very active and physically capable sort of fellow, I have had 3, count em, three, situations in the past 8 years of my life where my possession of a Para Ordnance Compact LDA 45ACP (v. nice, BTW!) stopped some very unpleasant things from happening to me. Despite that I took Karate to four levels in my university days, all I could now possibly do is land one, or at most two, good ones but to the complete ruination of my hands, elbows, etc. Course, I'd do it to save my life or defend my wife, who has no real means of physical defense against, say, two or three slightly drugged, drunk or beligerant bat or knife-wielding thuggos.

You know, in jtur's fantasy world of no guns, at all. Even in the unlikely chance of that happening, AS IN: a magic red button is pushed and all guns vaporize, even the poilce's, and crtainly all he illegal thuggo guns.

Well then, what WOULD the thuggos then do? We'd haveta then git rid of all the bats and of course, knives, like they're stupidly planning now in Canada, the True North Strong and Socialistically Free.

My solution is to have THE OPTION, jtur, to stop such fights or advances with a well-reasoned bit of very potent threatery. The bbl. of a 45ACP pistol pointed at your face, with the holder having that certain look of assurance and skill, will change your average stupid thuggo's hostile thinking right now. As it should.

BTW, on two of your other silly assumptive and yet completely erroneous points;

ONE:
there a a host of other, alternate pro-arms organizations in this country: Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership - Homepage), several National Police Chief Groups (The International Association of Chiefs of Police > IACP Homepage) (not the handpicked anti groups the Brady crowd keeps trying to court), the various National Shooting Sports organizations, most military veteran organizations, the various airgun, rifle and handgun Olympic Shooting Committees, All the specific animal management suport groups like duck, quail, whitetail, turkey, mule deer, elk Unlimited, etc. etc. groups; all in direct support of hunting, proper game management and thus law-abiding gun ownership.

Your assumption that it's an oddball splinter group is so off base it's stupifying. There's literally hundreds of millions of us way-off-base ranting gun nuts in this, and other, countries. And now, we're all about to vote on any silly nonsense to "blanket" take away any of the rights of the law-abiding. Partial gun restrictions or full, either way, forget it for now. You loose if that's your argument.

To black-ball or demonize the NRA in its entirety, based on the media's basied veiwpoint of them, is to do so to literally millions of nice folks. How kindly of you, to take the media's word at it's face value without any critical thinking applied. Is that how you come to your so-called knowledgeqable positions on things? Via the Evening Alphabet News, 30 minutes of carefully concocted info-handling? Yah gotta love it.

Two:
Most of my friends are more than happy to have their kids play over at my house. Of course, like any sensible person I do not leave my guns laying around the house. What sort of incompetant would do that? You? Now, after I've locked up for the night, and there's not supposed to be anyone on my large acreage, any inteloper would be wisde to announce hteir intrusion, least they suffer from a pre-challenged but eventual case of extreme lead poisoning. after all, I'm a tired old disabled sort and all, and you would help an old man across the street, wouldn't you?

Probably not....
 
Old 05-22-2009, 03:28 PM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,388 posts, read 5,547,416 times
Reputation: 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Sorry, you're wrong. Government never registered them. They just banned them and confiscated them.
Not true. But since you know all, you already knew that right?
 
Old 05-22-2009, 03:36 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,366 posts, read 9,999,217 times
Reputation: 9115
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX Homeboy View Post
I would rather see a USA with abolished religion, no freedom of speech (Hooray, no more media!), no rights to assemble or protest the govt.

Likewise, the government should be able to arrest and imprison debtors and anyone who spoke out against it. Moreover, the military should have preference as to where they are housed and should be able to arbitrarily select the nicest homes to stay in. I mean, they are the ones who are protecting us after all.

Further, the government should be able to spy on its citizens' emails, communications via phone, computer, television, and personal letters. Then, the government should seize peoples' property at will and for the benefit of the state.

The State should not serve the people, instead the people should serve the needs and wants of the state.

BIG SMILE, BIG SMILE, BIG SMILE!

Yeah, I have to say... we have a bright future that you've mapped out here. Are you a prophet by any chance? Or is the direction our country is going that obvious?
 
Old 05-22-2009, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,127 posts, read 9,214,508 times
Reputation: 8990
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Prior to the 14th Amendment, a Citizen was a Citizen of his State and as such was a citizen of the "Many States" He was Sovergn with the same status as a King. His rights were inalienable, given by God; therefore he was not a subject to anyone
Please produce one citation, definition, court ruling or statute wherein it admits that CITIZENS are sovereign - or individually sovereign.

I may be in error, but in all the research and law libraries I've searched, I have never found ONE citation wherein it stated that citizens were sovereign.

There are a few confusing citations that state that the citizens are part of the collective sovereignty of the State (government), but that's part of the democratic form of government, not the republican form.

FWIW - conscription preceded the 14th amendment. Remember, A. Lincoln had the first draft.

The Enrollment Act of March 3, 1863, was legislation passed by the United States Congress during the American Civil War to provide fresh manpower for the Union Army. The controversial act required the enrollment of every male citizen and those immigrants who had filed for citizenship between ages twenty and forty-five.

I believe this categorically refutes your belief that State Citizens were sovereign. In reality, any citizen was a subject, bound to perform civic duties.

However, American people were and are sovereigns... as long as they do not surrender their endowment, birthright and heritage.

References:
Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;....
[United States Constitution, Article 4, Section 4]
"GOVERNMENT (Republican Government)- One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated."
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 695
In contrast:
"DEMOCRACY - That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy."
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 432
(I will omit a treatise on the myriad uses of "or" in legal jargon, to lessen confusion.)

Restating
Democratic Form: Whole Body of Citizens indirectly exercise sovereignty (absolute power) through their representative legislators, who in turn, delegate authority to the executive branch to execute the laws.

Republican Form: Individual people directly exercise sovereignty. They may delegate certain powers - via petition - to the servant government. Example - when making a criminal complaint, the sheriff becomes their representative. Or in a foreign country, petitioning the ambassador for assistance.

To rebut any presumption that "citizens" are "collectively sovereign" let us remember the following facts:
1. Citizens are obligated to perform civic duties (militia, jury duty, paying taxes, etc)
2. Sovereigns (aka American nationals, free inhabitants) are not obligated to perform civic duties.

People have the RIGHT to bear arms.
Militia (citizens) have the DUTY to bear arms - or be denied that privilege, as the commander sees fit.

More info:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/8778979-post69.html
 
Old 05-22-2009, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,613,725 times
Reputation: 35875
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
You know, in jtur's fantasy world of no guns, at all. Even in the unlikely chance of that happening, AS IN: a magic red button is pushed and all guns vaporize, even the poilce's, and crtainly all he illegal thuggo guns. .
Please tell me more about my fantasy world. Feel free to illustrate it with clips from my previous posts.

Make sure you put some fist fights in my fantasy world. I know people who have been in dozens of fist fights, but I've never been in a single one. I wish I'd had some. I guess I just don't know how to have fun.

If I'm ever in your neighborhood, can I come over and look at a human being through the sights of your Para Ordnance Compact LDA 45ACP that you are so in love with? I bet that works better than viagra.
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