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Old 05-23-2009, 08:01 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,536,431 times
Reputation: 3875

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarch View Post
Looks like the pro-gunowners are in the majority on this thread
Well... I'm pro-gun ownership, and I don't even own a gun.

At this point, like it or not, guns are everywhere. If they were now made illegal and/or confiscated, the ONLY people who would have guns are the military, the police and the criminals - and that doesn't seem like a good scenario at all.

 
Old 05-23-2009, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,859,860 times
Reputation: 35910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post

Who sets the limits? It
The same people who set all the other limits that constitute regulations. The same people that set the .08 DUI limit.

Who sets the limits on how many animals you can keep at you domicile. Local statutes limit how many dogs you can keep. In most urban localities, you cannot keep any chickens or pigs at all, or tigers or boa constrictors. Do you agree that a public interest is met by such restrictions? Do you contend that the constitution gives us the right to own guns, but owning pets or livestock or breeding assets is a privilege?

You can own fertilizer and ammonia, but if you own several tons of it and are not a farmer, the public interest has a right to know that you have it in your garage in the suburbs, and to question your needs and your motives. Or do you believe that owning several tons of fertilizer and ammonia for the purpose of manufacturing explosives is within your "right to bear arms"? Who "sets the limit" between a shotgun shell and a bomb? Easy. The limit is set by community standards of what constitutes a public danger beyond meeting the constitutional guarantee of "being armed".

As an American citizen, concerned with my own safety, I have a right to know who keeps a personal arsenal of several thousand military weapons in working condition and millions of rounds of ammo. The citizens have no right to arbitrarily take them away from you, but they DO have a right to know that you have them in your pole barn, and why you think you need them.

Don't forget that the right to bear arms extends equally to all persons under the jurisdiction of the US government, not just citizens. Would you want to know about it if some Mexican alien exerecised his right to bear arms with a stash of several thousand military weapons? Or would you stand up to protect his constitutional right to keep and bear arms and to form a well-regulated militia without any regulatory oversight at all?

Last edited by jtur88; 05-23-2009 at 09:35 AM..
 
Old 05-23-2009, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,275,457 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by rarch View Post
Looks like the pro-gunowners are in the majority on this thread
The pro second ammendment people make up the majority oppinion in the united states.
 
Old 05-23-2009, 09:55 AM
 
129 posts, read 508,896 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahma View Post
The pro second ammendment people make up the majority oppinion in the united states.
Well thanks for letting people know how it is there
 
Old 05-23-2009, 10:15 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,341 posts, read 10,977,503 times
Reputation: 12291
Odd thing, as a comparison, I remember being taught about the Minutemen and the Militia in school. The tradition of the American Rifleman and the Pennsylvania Long Rifle was talked about much as well in the context of how miserable the latter two made the British forces. Firearms are now only talked about in classrooms as evil and insidious devices used by criminals to wreak havoc and kill innocents. Traditional American firearms history is completely ignored or revised to suit. There is a movement afoot to turn the history of firearms in our nation into a horrid thing that needs to be forgotten and demonized. Gone are the images of Daniel Boone carrying his Pennsylvania Rifle into the New Lands and of the armed citizen defending their homes and families from oppression and danger. The latter have been replaced with images of evil people spraying mass quantities of ammunition into crowds of innocent people. Funny, in the bygone days I speak of, when the ownership and use of firearms was taught in a positive light, we did not see these mass shootings and horrible murders happening on near the scale we see now. Kids in those days looked to images of Davey Crocket, Jeramiah Johnson, many characters portrayed by John Wayne and such as role models. Hmmm, Action stars have 'evolved' a bit ....have they not? Something to think about. Have we really'progressed'? If what I am seeing is progress, I'd like to take a few steps back.
 
Old 05-23-2009, 10:30 AM
 
Location: MS
4,034 posts, read 3,885,086 times
Reputation: 1391
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The same people who set all the other limits that constitute regulations. The same people that set the .08 DUI limit.
I'm going to assume (I know that is dangerous) that this limit was set at a point where a person's reflexes are becoming impaired and you are a danger to others on the road. How is my number of weapons dangerous to you or my neighbor? He knows how many guns I have. He even walked over and talked about the when I had a few at the end of the driveway using a laser bore sight to adjust my optics. I know in certain parts of the country he would have called the police and the SWAT team would have surrounded me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Who sets the limits on how many animals you can keep at you domicile.
Keeping breeding livestock in a house is a health hazard to the occupants. It's not like you can keep a rooster in a safe when not in use. Same with the number of animals outside. They become a nusiance to others. A local family was recently visited by the sherriff and given a court order to remove the hundreds of caged chickens from their house. Health hazard and nusiance to others. As I've said before you won't know I'm a gun owner until I tell you. The mailman knows who the cat ladies are by the smell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You can own fertilizer and ammonia, but if you own several tons of it
Actually you can. I can buy as much as I want if I pass a background check like buying a gun. Father-in-law is a cotton farmer so I know the details on this one. I would raise some red flags and would probably get a visit from a 3 letter department but I can still do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Who "sets the limit" between a shotgun shell and a bomb? Easy. The limit is set by community standards of what constitutes a public danger beyond meeting the constitutional guarantee of "being armed".
The ATF does with their ban on the the possession of destructive devices. Why do you think they get called every time a kid blows his hand off with a home-made pipe bomb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
As an American citizen, concerned with my own safety, I have a right to know who keeps a personal arsenal of several thousand military weapons in working condition and millions of rounds of ammo. The citizens have no right to arbitrarily take them away from you, but they DO have a right to know that you have them in your pole barn, and why you think you need them.
Actually you don't have that right. We have amendments covering privacy but none stating that you should know what your neighbor is up to. I could be plotting something bad but thinking about something and taking action are two different things. There's this whole innocent until proven guilty thing. I'd be glad to have a neighbor with an arsenal. At least if things got bad (SHTF type stuff) then we could help each other. I like to look for the positive aspects of my friends and neighbors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Don't forget that the right to bear arms extends equally to all persons under the jurisdiction of the US government, not just citizens. Would you want to know about it if some Mexican alien exerecised his right to bear arms with a stash of several thousand military weapons? Or would you stand up to protect his constitutional right to keep and bear arms and to form a well-regulated militia without any regulatory oversight at all?
An illegal alien can't buy a weapon from a dealer. There is a specific question on the form about that. An illegal alien can't buy face to face without proof of residency in the state they are buying the weapon. If an illegal alien is in possession of a gun then someone has broken the law for them to have it. The seller should be punished to the full extent of the law. The alien should be punished if the there are laws in that state against them possessing said gun.

My brother-in-law can buy a gun in VA because he has a resident green card and a driver's license proving he is a resident of VA. He is Canadian and never was around a guns until this past Thanksgiving. My other brother-in-law and myself took him shooting. He shot everything from a .22 to a .357 magnum and loved it. If you are ever in the area, I'll gladly do the same for you. And this included basic safety on handling a gun.

-Robert
 
Old 05-23-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,859,860 times
Reputation: 35910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post

An illegal alien can't buy a weapon from a dealer. There is a specific question on the form about that. An illegal alien can't buy face to face without proof of residency in the state they are buying the weapon. If an illegal alien is in possession of a gun then someone has broken the law for them to have it. The seller should be punished to the full extent of the law. The alien should be punished if the there are laws in that state against them possessing said gun.
I didn't say an illegal alien---that is your blanket assumption that all aliens are illegal except your
Canadan friend. But even an undocumented alien can easily prove residence in any state, and buy all the guns he wants. An "illegal alien", by the way, according to the guarantees of the constitution that you so quickly hide behind the skirts of, is a person that has been adjudged to be illegal after full due process. Until then, he has the same 2nd Amendment guarantees that you have, because he is under the jurisdiction of a country that is prohibited from infringing that right. State laws may vary.

I don't need you to show me anything. I was raised by a gun owner and by the time I was 16, I probably knew as much about guns as your Canadian friend will ever know. And when I lived in Canada, many of my friends had guns, and I ate plenty of wild game to show for it.
 
Old 05-23-2009, 02:20 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,341 posts, read 10,977,503 times
Reputation: 12291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I didn't say an illegal alien---that is your blanket assumption that all aliens are illegal except your
Canadan friend. But even an undocumented alien can easily prove residence in any state, and buy all the guns he wants. An "illegal alien", by the way, according to the guarantees of the constitution that you so quickly hide behind the skirts of, is a person that has been adjudged to be illegal after full due process. Until then, he has the same 2nd Amendment guarantees that you have, because he is under the jurisdiction of a country that is prohibited from infringing that right. State laws may vary.

I don't need you to show me anything. I was raised by a gun owner and by the time I was 16, I probably knew as much about guns as your Canadian friend will ever know. And when I lived in Canada, many of my friends had guns, and I ate plenty of wild game to show for it.
jtur..I would be very interested to see a response from you to post 585. I have never aske for a specific response before but this particular aspect interests me as to your view....ain't you special. Had to add the last because it seems we must keep our responses somewhat acidic to 'keep it real' ...so to speak. ( this is intended to be humorous...........so don't get to bent). At any rate , I feel I touched on a relevant subject, and a different take on it would be much appreciated. Tin Knocker...ifn' yer out there I would like to haer your take as well......lol, yer special too. If , perhaps in a different light than jtur......just to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Or strays from the culls or whatever.
 
Old 05-24-2009, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Nevada
506 posts, read 427,437 times
Reputation: 580
Criminal-free America makes a lot more sense than a gun-free America.

I'm repeating what I said earlier on this, or another gun debate, humans have been killing each other since the beginning of time, long before guns were invented, so taking guns out of the equation will not solve that problem.
 
Old 05-24-2009, 11:52 AM
 
Location: NY
2,007 posts, read 3,371,387 times
Reputation: 905
Well unfortunately, this has degraded to a feeding of the troll who I thankfully blocked long ago. Interesting at times but I'll leave it now. To all you gun owners who are waayyyy more patient than I am, Good on ya!
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