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Old 06-19-2009, 09:19 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,523,427 times
Reputation: 1573

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Nothing.
I don't own a gun.
Nor do I feel the need to own 1.
But I have enough experience with the Uzi.
And a Law.

And Iíve thrown a grenade.

 
Old 06-19-2009, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Puerto Penasco, Mexico
967 posts, read 2,656,810 times
Reputation: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Nothing.
I don't own a gun.
Nor do I feel the need to own 1.
But I have enough experience with the Uzi.
And a Law.

And Iíve thrown a grenade.
So you feel the rapist will abide by the law, and not rape your fictional daughter? Rather Utopian view of it... considering it's a RAPIST, which infers disregard for law.

Or, are you suggesting that you would use another form of deadly force (Uzi/grenade)? Which I would say implies you feel there is a valid need for personal protection.

I tender that the rapist with AIDS in the scenario is in possesion of deadly force (AIDS/ HIV). Knowing the Police won't get there in time to stop it, you choose to let it happen?

Rape occurs, even in the Netherlands: just Google "rapes in Netherlands". So this isn't purely hypothetical.
 
Old 06-19-2009, 10:17 AM
 
Location: MS
3,970 posts, read 3,859,071 times
Reputation: 1375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
I don't own a gun.
Nor do I feel the need to own 1.
I don't want my house to burn down but I pay my insurance premium every month just in case. I also take an active approach with preventative maintenance to reduce the risk of it happening.

I don't want to be in a car wreck but I pay my insurance premium every month just in case. I also take an active approach to reduce the risk by avoiding dangerouse roads and intersections. I don't speed in wet or icy conditions.

I don't want to get sick and die but I pay both health and life insurance policy premiums just in case. I also take an active approach to reduce the risk. I exercise and eat right.

My gun is my insurance policy against harm to myself and my family. I take an active approach to reduce the risk of me every having to use it. I avoid dangerous parts of town. I am aware of my surroundings. I have a home alarm system with signs posted in the yard. Just like the other insurance I have, I don't want to use it but if the unfortunate should happen, I have the tools to protect myself and my family.

It's a free country. There are people here who have no insurance on their home or belongings. If they lose it all, someone will take care of them. There are people driving with no car insurance (illegal in most places). There are people with no health insurance (another topic for another day). Each person weighs the risks of carrying vs. not and has to make personal decision. I am glad I live in a country where I can make that choice and I choose to take my safety under my own control instead of leaving it in the hands of others.

You keep refering to criminals and mentally disturbed people getting guns. That will happen. With freedom comes risk. There are checks in place but people will always slip through. The other option is the government removing our freedom and taking care of us 100%. They do too much now. I don't want to live in a nanny state. It's bad enough that I can't play lawn darts because a handful of idiots aren't smart enough to get out of the way of sharp, falling objects.

-Robert
 
Old 06-19-2009, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,582,235 times
Reputation: 24548
If the Law removed all guns from all the folks in the US, including all law enforcement and criminals, there would be a tremendous market in knives and clubs. As well as chain mail armor.
 
Old 06-19-2009, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,377,950 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post
I don't want my house to burn down but I pay my insurance premium every month just in case. I also take an active approach with preventative maintenance to reduce the risk of it happening.

My gun is my insurance policy against harm to myself and my family.
I thank you for a very excellent post - with great analogies.

Very nice.
 
Old 06-19-2009, 01:59 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 4,833,758 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound View Post
They say a picture is worth a thousand words... What would you pick, Tricky?
notice how he can't actually come out and answer the question...
 
Old 06-20-2009, 03:58 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,523,427 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound
Quote:
So you feel the rapist will abide by the law, and not rape your fictional daughter?
Nope, I won't let my actions be dictated by illusionary fear.
Many American gun fetishists insist that they need a gun to protect themselves against the government, the exact same government they voted in power.
I have no intention to live like paranoid people do.

FYI I would teach my children how to defend themselves not only against physical threats but also against psychological (peer) pressure.
I want them to grow up as individuals and not as herd animals.
And I have no intention to let my children grow up as victims of fear where they view a gun as a magical wand which will solve all problems.


Originally Posted by Robert_J
Quote:
My gun is my insurance policy against harm to myself and my family.
There is only 1 insurance in life and that is that you will die.
If the rapist also carries a gun the odds are even.
And if the rapist brought his gang banging buddies with him the odds are in his favour.


Originally Posted by stycotl
Quote:
notice how he can't actually come out and answer the question...
I just waited for your comment so I could steal your pants.
 
Old 06-20-2009, 07:34 AM
 
Location: MS
3,970 posts, read 3,859,071 times
Reputation: 1375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
There is only 1 insurance in life and that is that you will die.
If the rapist also carries a gun the odds are even.
And if the rapist brought his gang banging buddies with him the odds are in his favour.
There is only one GUARANTEE in life. Insurance is different. It is there to help when things go wrong.

Actually, I don't think the odds are even if both the attacker and the attackee are armed. Responsible guns owners are going to have training to get a carry permit and most will continue to practice. Your average thug can't even hold a gun properly. Watch the security camera videos on Youtube. They hold it sideways like in the movies.

When it is many vs. one, you can at least take a few out. My local liquor store was robbed a few years ago. Two armed thugs came in demanding money. The husband and wife owners were in there looking very much like prey. Well, the husband took too long in getting the money so thug #1 pulled the trigger. The gun jammed.* This gave the husband his chance to draw his weapon. The old saying "you don't have to be fast, just faster than the other guy" was true. The owner fired back and both ran. The faster of the two got out of the store and left his buddy to bleed to death in the parking lot.

*You might call it luck that the gun jammed. I call it poor preparation and lack of knowedge of your weapon. A properly cleaned firearm loaded with quality ammunition will fire. These guys buy the cheapest thing they can on the street because that's what is available to them. They don't learn to field strip the gun and clean it properly. Heck they robber probably had the safety on by mistake. Either way, he didn't prepare for his job of robbing the store. The owner was prepared, saw an opportunity to protect himself and his wife and took it. There is one less thug in the world thanks to him. After this happened, his business increased.

Before you say that ALL guns jam, I will agree with that. But with proper care, that risk is almost nil. I have a Baretta 92F which is reliable enough to be carried by different militaries around the world. My wife has a Springfield XD 9mm which has gone through testing where it shot 20,000 rounds without a single misfire. And that was with minimal cleaning.

-Robert
 
Old 06-20-2009, 07:42 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,324,123 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker What I'm saying that should be done is that Americans should need a gun license if they wanna buy and / or use guns.
As I understand it this is not the case.
No, thats not what you said, its just what your saying now because what you said before was proven erroneous.

Buy you are correct, in most places theres no license required to buy a gun. In the few places that do pretty much require a license/permit to buy a gun they use the NICS system to do a backround check before issueing it. Making the requirement a waste of time & money because you already go thru NICS to buy a gun, even with no license requirement.
There is NO PLACE in the US that you can buy a gun legally at retail without a backround check unless you have a permit.

Quote:
Nope, because you can buy a car without having to drive it.
If people buy guns to protect themselves they 1st should need a license in order to be able to buy a gun.
Yep, because theres no way to prove you wont drive without a license but you can still buy that car. In a free country you are prosecuted AFTER you commit a crime, not persecuted because you can.

Quote:
Nope it isn't.
Gun fetishists wanna believe that there is a clear line between law-abiding citizens and criminals, but unfortunately this is not the case.
Funny how I get edited for name calling but you go on with it constantly & nobody says a word.

There is a very clear line. Perhaps not to you but you dont seem to have much faith in your own ability to know right from wrong & conduct yourself acordingly.

Quote:
One of the reasons why America has the largest prison population in the world is because you don't distinguish between (career)criminals and people who suffer from a psychological disorder.
If their disorder causes them to commit crimes they are criminals & belong in prison.

Quote:
A criminal belongs in prison while people who suffer from a psychological disorder belong in a mental institution. Putting these people with other criminals only creates more problems.
See above, it only causes problems if you let them out.

Quote:
So the simplistic reasoning that everyone who commits a crime automatically belongs in jail simply is wrong.
Not if you want a safe society it isn't. I think I understand now. You wish to ban weapons so that criminaly insane folks can walk free & be safely prevented access to any firearms.
 
Old 06-20-2009, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,377,950 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Nope, I won't let my actions be dictated by illusionary fear.
While it IS unfortunate, it is a FACT that personal attacks happen - and happen all to often.

In the area where I reside, this past Tuesday, a home was broken into by two violent attackers (we call it a home invasion). The invaders nearly killed one of the elderly occupants by savagely beating him. The other homeowner was able to get to their firearm - SHE shot and killed one of the "invaders", and shot and wounded the other (who was later arrested at a hospital where he was seeking treatment for a gun shot wound).

Ignoring the FACT that attacks can (and do) happen is merely burying your head in the sand.
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