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Old 05-10-2009, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,720,623 times
Reputation: 976

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In all of recorded history, idealistic youth have not fixed all of society's problems. ...and every problem that they managed to fix in their older years, caused another problem which needed fixing. In human experience there is no such thing as finality--outside of death, that is. Every solution begats a problem. And not every problem is deserving of a solution.
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Old 05-10-2009, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,142 posts, read 9,223,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
And capitalists are different?
Is a banker who sells someone insurance while he knows that his client can never pay for it in his natural lifetime a socialist pirate or simply a greedy capitalist who only cares about the bonus he'll get from selling as much insurances as possible?
The only important difference I see between a capitalist and a communist system is that communists want to spread poverty over the population while capitalist wants to spread the wealth.
Unfortunately it doesn't really matter because the majority of the people will end up poor anyway, because in both systems only those in power will become (filthy) rich.
Whether it is a communist or a capitalist system it still is the (very) small minority who lords it over the large majority.

FYI the capitalist (credit) system is just as dead as communism is anywayz.
You could compare the credit system to an incurable terminal patient who'll die within a year, but if you give him a radical treatment of medicines you can stretch his life with 5 years.
Sadly the fact still is that he is an incurable terminal patient.
Capitalism, by definition, excludes predatory practices such as usury, limited liability, and shared risk (i.e., insurance). It is tragic that the term has been co-opted by the scoundrels.
Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are absolutely owned by individuals and operated for their individual profit.
Anything else is NOT capitalism, including usury (which likes to call its nefarious scheme "capitalizing") and limited liability artificial persons (stock corporations) who engage in usury. Once you comprehend that, you will no longer be fooled by the money manipulators and financiers who rule the world by deception and fraud.

A farmer who absolutely owns his farm enjoys capitalism.
A farmer who does not absolutely own his farm is a tenant.
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Old 05-10-2009, 04:06 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,529,077 times
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Originally Posted by jetgraphics
Quote:
Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are absolutely owned by individuals and operated for their individual profit.
The thing I have a problem with is that because everything is connected (especially in this global village), I don't believe that there is such a thing as an 'individual' profit.
Then again I never was really interested in economics.
Iím only interested in the reason why different societies use different forms of economics.
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Old 05-10-2009, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,142 posts, read 9,223,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production, distribution and exchange are absolutely owned by individuals and operated for their individual profit.
The thing I have a problem with is that because everything is connected (especially in this global village), I don't believe that there is such a thing as an 'individual' profit.
Then again I never was really interested in economics.
Iím only interested in the reason why different societies use different forms of economics.
Perhaps if you stepped back from years of confusing propaganda and considered this:
If you came across a field, wherein an apple tree was laden with fruit, and you picked fruit, did you have the right to take it?
A. If no one claimed the tree - yes
B. If the tree belonged to someone else - no.

Now, if the tree belonged to you, and someone came along and took your fruit without your permission, did they have the right to take it?
A. If you absolutely owned the tree - no
B. If you didn't absolutely own the tree - maybe.

When a government comes along and says you and yours shall not be taken for public use without just compensation, you might wonder where it gets its authority to compel payment of taxes, on pain of confiscation - or prosecution.

Under American law, private property (absolutely owned) is protected, but estate (held with qualified ownership) is not.

Under Socialism (and Communism) private property is abolished and qualified ownership / collective ownership replaces it.

So to simplify things, you merely choose whether you wish a system that honors your absolute ownership of yourself, your labor and that which you acquire with your harmless labor; or one in which you and yours if first claimed by the STATE.
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Old 05-10-2009, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,653,762 times
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Somebody start another thread on this OP, and see if we can have a Great Debate on it before the Private Property trolls hack it.
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,720,623 times
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Jet, you are way off topic. Please stick to THIS topic.
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Monroe, Louisiana
887 posts, read 2,615,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Somebody start another thread on this OP, and see if we can have a Great Debate on it before the Private Property trolls hack it.
Private Property trolls?

I believe private property is the most important aspect of a good system and one of the basic rights of human beings...
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,720,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSU Tiger Z71 View Post
Private Property trolls?

I believe private property is the most important aspect of a good system and one of the basic rights of human beings...
That's true--but not the topic of this thread.
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Old 05-11-2009, 02:32 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,529,077 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by jetgraphics
Quote:
So to simplify things, you merely choose whether you wish a system that honors your absolute ownership of yourself, your labor and that which you acquire with your harmless labor; or one in which you and yours if first claimed by the STATE.
LoL I don't believe in (absolute) individual freedom (because all our individual choices & actions also affect others).
And I don't believe that a person can own land, he can consider it his territory and lay claim on it, but he cannot possess it.
And even if he owns land he cannot claim that he also owns the things that live and / or are under the land or above it.
In short I don't believe in absolute freedom, absolute ownership or any other absolutes.
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,720,623 times
Reputation: 976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
In short I don't believe in absolute freedom, absolute ownership or any other absolutes.
Well, to stay off topic: Do you beleive that we all die? Is that not an absolute condition? You are either alive or dead, you can't be both at the same time; you can't be neither at the same time. It's kind of like pregnancy--either you are pregnant or not. There is no such thing as "a little bit pregnant"
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