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Old 08-15-2009, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,371 posts, read 25,579,836 times
Reputation: 19646

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Todays liberalism is:

Spending taxpayor dollars is the only way to get the nation out of financial disaster.

Create a problem such as global warming. Dump taxpayor money into it to subsidize the development of Hybrid cars that are not cost effective to build or solar power that is still not cost effective without a government subsidy.

Take care of you from the cradle to the grave. Make sure that you have health insurance, social security benefits, an income if you get hurt and can't work. Charge you a fee for the benefits with the knowlege that when you need social security it will be there.

Liberal Supreme Court Judges base judgements on life experience and what is fair.

The government protects jobs

Taxation is good for the public good. People need to pay for the services that the governement can offer them.

Today's Conservatism is:

Business development is the only way to get the nation out of financial disaster.

Market economy will fix problems that really exist. Companies develop products that can produce a product that is profitable and doesn't require government subsidies.

Allow you to take care of yourself by investing in your own future. Eliminating taxes on investment income and inheritance. Realizes that if you can invest in your retirement needs better than the government can because their is no way that someone can live comfortably on Social Security.

Conservative Supreme Court judges base judgements on what is written in the constitution.

Capitalism creates jobs.

Taxation is bad for the public. It takes away peoples ability to do for themselves.
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Old 08-15-2009, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,311,199 times
Reputation: 8606
The parties change what they follow as they go along. I think of conservatives as being the party of Barry Goldwater, and the party that call themselves conservative Republicans have nothing to do with that party.

Democrats have changed what they stand for as well, but the basics are still there in the party.

The difference in the parties is that Democrats seem to welcome discourse and people disagreeing with them. I know people from all rungs on the social ladder that call themselves Democrats. I only know of three groups that call themselves Republicans. People with lots of money, people that are scared of the government, and super religious evangelists.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
Conservatives believe there is an infinite supply of resources and energy, and the quality of life rises in proportion to how much resources and energy are consumed.

Liberals believe there is merit in a minimalist lifestyle in which people creatively find ways to enrich their lives without consuming industrial products and services.

Paradoxically, political conservatives have a liberal viewpoint about economics, and political liberals have a conservative viewpoint about economics.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
16,116 posts, read 20,152,267 times
Reputation: 8204
Socialist and Fascist actually describe the two major parties better than Democrat and Republican.
True conservatives have abandoned the Republican Party by the hundreds of thousands while real liberals are about fed up with Obamas "bipartisanship".
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
Socialist and Fascist actually describe the two major parties better than Democrat and Republican.
True conservatives have abandoned the Republican Party by the hundreds of thousands while real liberals are about fed up with Obamas "bipartisanship".
Do you believe that Obama has invented political science out of thin air, and all aspects of this new and exciting concept are defined according to what you believe he thinks? Sounds like you miss the good old days of Bush partisanship, and the sole purpose of your entry into political discussion is to castigate Obama.

Real liberals, in case you're wondering, to not play personality cards. What they are fed up with is government by corporate lobby. Conversely, real conservatives have nothing to play except personality cards.

Last edited by jtur88; 08-15-2009 at 08:40 AM..
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Old 08-15-2009, 01:52 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 4,832,193 times
Reputation: 1300
just the fact that some of you guys are starting to argue liberal vs conservative means that you don't get what the op is talking about.

this thread is not one more out of a thousand to argue your political party's talking points, so take that back to the p&c forum if that is what you want to do. this thread was to talk about what you consider yourself according to different philosophies of government and social construct, and if you for some reason cannot describe yourself apart of one of the two parties, then you have missed the boat and won't contribute anything intelligent to this conversation.
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Old 08-15-2009, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by stycotl View Post
this thread was to talk about what you consider yourself according to different philosophies of government and social construct, and if you for some reason cannot describe yourself apart of one of the two parties, then you have missed the boat and won't contribute anything intelligent to this conversation.
But in my view, you have missed the boat if you think that "philosophies of government and social construct" can be characterized in terms of the two dominant political schools of thought in the USA. In fact, there are not two political schools of thought in the USA, there is only one. There is a huge swath of governmental philosophy that is anathema to both the parties. Such ideas as socialism, populism, egalitarianism, diplomacy, cooperation---all concepts that liberals and conservatives alike hold in contempt.

The USA is politically reactive, the role of politicos is to lurch from crisis to crisis, tossing out whatever measures mitigate impending disaster, irrespective of whether the remedy of choice seems to be liberal or conservative.

Most people think I am liberal, merely because I most vocally speak out in contempt of what the influential conservatives of the day endorse. But I don't object to issues because they are conservative or liberal, but because they are mindless and stupid and inhumane and self-destructive and vapid and self-serving and bombastic and flatulent. Liberals brought us the Vietnam war and Conservatives brought us the Iraq war, for only slightly different reasons. I refuse to associate with either of them.

Last edited by jtur88; 08-15-2009 at 06:21 PM..
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Old 08-16-2009, 08:09 AM
 
1,067 posts, read 1,738,300 times
Reputation: 460
Default Not a Continum, Rather View a Triangle

IMHO a more reasoned view is applying a triangle. On one point you have the leftist liberals and on another you have the facist conservative. On the third point is the moderate.

BTW: It's my opinion that a leftist liberal and facist conservative are all but one and the same. Thus if one were to insist upon applying a continum I'd have to put them both on one end with moderates on the other.
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:50 PM
 
Location: vagabond
2,631 posts, read 4,832,193 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
But in my view, you have missed the boat if you think that "philosophies of government and social construct" can be characterized in terms of the two dominant political schools of thought in the USA. In fact, there are not two political schools of thought in the USA, there is only one. There is a huge swath of governmental philosophy that is anathema to both the parties. Such ideas as socialism, populism, egalitarianism, diplomacy, cooperation---all concepts that liberals and conservatives alike hold in contempt.

The USA is politically reactive, the role of politicos is to lurch from crisis to crisis, tossing out whatever measures mitigate impending disaster, irrespective of whether the remedy of choice seems to be liberal or conservative.

Most people think I am liberal, merely because I most vocally speak out in contempt of what the influential conservatives of the day endorse. But I don't object to issues because they are conservative or liberal, but because they are mindless and stupid and inhumane and self-destructive and vapid and self-serving and bombastic and flatulent. Liberals brought us the Vietnam war and Conservatives brought us the Iraq war, for only slightly different reasons. I refuse to associate with either of them.
i agree 100% with what you are saying here; i just think that you give yourself too much credit for your history of application. you seem very often to do what many others here do, and that is blindly support one political agenda while crying foul at the same things from the other side.

now, i realize that i could be wrong in my judgment of the situation, and that even more than in normal conversations face to face, internet conversations sow miscommunication and confusion.

however, i have noticed patterns that persuade me to believe that you will argue with anybody just for the sake of arguing, and that you vastly prefer to attack the right than the left, even while defending the left's use or misuse of the same tactics that the right undertook.

as you said, they both are for all intents and purposes, the same ugly animal and they engage in the same lies, hypocrisy, and robbery. they just have different colored stripes, so many people are deluded into thinking that they are different.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
stycotl, I had already acknowledged in my post that the targets of my wry comments are more often conservatives, I guess, although I do not (well, rarely) play personality games here, and if I disagree with a post, I often don't even look at who it is, and I don't keep a mental rolodex of which posters are conservative and which are liberal. I respond to posts on the merit of the post. If I conclude from the content of a post that the person is by nature inclined to be vicious or mean-spirited, I can become downright impolite. Such people are terrifyingly numerous.

The things I am most likely to object to are anecdotal arguments and arguments supported by unreliable sources or pure whimsy, or posts in which non-sequiturs are drawn from demonstrable realities. If someone states something to be a fact. I address the basis of the supposed fact, not the political philosophy that wishes it were a fact.

I think if you click on my screenname at the top of this post and read my previous posts in various forums, this will be borne out for you.

I have about a dozen people on my ignore list, because the mere exercise of responding to moronic posts no longer amuses me.

Last edited by jtur88; 08-18-2009 at 09:25 AM..
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