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Old 05-15-2009, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
Reputation: 35869

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennel View Post
yes b ecause they never get better. They alway re-offend.
Please show me the statistics. I just showed you comprehensive statistics from the Bureau of Justice that 19 out of 20 do NOT re-offend. Show me your statistics that they always re-offend. Where did you get this idea? I would like to see you sources, so I can see who is lying to us about that, and why so many people keep repeating this lie when they know that it is not true.
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
Reputation: 35869
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Sexual predators cannot be reformed, .
Show me who is telling you this lie. Don't just parrot lies that you hear on daytime TV. Give me your sources.

This is "Great Debates. Doesn't anybody ever look anything up and reference the source? Does anybody know what g-o-o-g-l-e spells?
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:08 PM
 
Location: SoCal
17 posts, read 45,692 times
Reputation: 29
Actually, I think that the best idea for sex offenders is to give them lighter sentences - on the condition that they agree to be incarcerated with the general prison population! Now THAT would be justice!
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:35 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,121,348 times
Reputation: 5171
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
95% of all sex offenders who are released, do NOT commit another sex crime. Many return to prison for other crimes, but only one out of twenty is rearrested for committing a sex crime after being released. This statistic has been well documented, researched and reported for decades. See if you can think of a reason why the sensationalist for-profit news media doesn't want you to know about that.

Bureau of Justice Statistics Press Release: Recidivism of Sex Offenders Released from Prison in 1994 (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/rsorp94pr.htm - broken link)
This is not true, here are the real statistics.

These are quotes from the Center for Sex Offense Management U.S Department of Justice Recidivism of Sex Offenders publication Dated May 2001

“National Crime Victimization Surveys (Bureau of Justice Statistics) conducted in
1994, 1995, and 1998 indicate that only 32 percent (one out of three) of sexual assaults against persons 12 or older are reported to law enforcement.
A three-year longitudinal study (Kilpatrick, Edmunds, and Seymour, 1992) of 4,008 adult women found that 84 percent of respondents who identified themselves as rape victims did not report the crime to authorities.”

“Several studies support the hypothesis that sexual offense recidivism rates are underreported. Marshall and Barbaree (1990) compared official records of a sample of sex offenders with "unofficial" sources of data. They found that the number of subsequent sex offenses revealed through unofficial sources was 2.4 times higher than the number that was recorded in official reports. In addition, research using information generated through polygraph examinations on a sample of imprisoned sex offenders with fewer than two known victims (on average), found that these offenders actually had an average of 110 victims and 318 offenses (Ahlmeyer, Heil, McKee, and English, 2000).”


“ Prentky, Lee, Knight, and Cerce (1997) found that over a 25-year period, child molesters had higher rates of reoffense than rapists. In this study, recidivism was operationalized as a failure rate and calculated as the proportion of individuals who were rearrested using survival analysis (which takes into account the amount of time each offender has been at risk in the community). Results show that over longer periods of time, child molesters have a higher failure rate—thus, a higher rate of rearrest—than rapists (52 percent versus 39 percent over 25 years). “

Sexual preditors deserve life in prison or the death sentence. People who defend them share in their guilt.
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:39 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,121,348 times
Reputation: 5171
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Show me who is telling you this lie. Don't just parrot lies that you hear on daytime TV. Give me your sources.

This is "Great Debates. Doesn't anybody ever look anything up and reference the source? Does anybody know what g-o-o-g-l-e spells?
A defender of child molesters is no better that the criminal they defend.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
Reputation: 35869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Quagmire View Post
Actually, I think that the best idea for sex offenders is to give them lighter sentences - on the condition that they agree to be incarcerated with the general prison population! Now THAT would be justice!
Sorry, the Founders were way ahead of you. They saw you coming, and provided us with a constitutional guarantee against cruel and unusual punishment. So, we see now that it was YOU that the Founders were protecting us from.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
Reputation: 35869
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
A defender of child molesters is no better that the criminal they defend.
Somehow, your post got transposed. The one you wrote that responded to what I said somehow got lost. Try resending it.

With reference to this post, the Founders were way ahead of you, too. They saw YOU coming, too, and wrote a constitutilnal guarantee against people being deprived of life, limb and property without due process, which includes defense counsel. So, you, too, are one of the people the Founders were protecting us from.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
Reputation: 35869
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
They found that the number of subsequent sex offenses revealed through unofficial sources was 2.4 times higher than the number that was recorded in official reports. .
So, you are saying the real recidivism rate is 12%, and not 5%, even if these "unofficial" sources are as reliable as the offical ones, which may or may not have a factual basis. Do you interpret that to mean that they always reoffend? Almost always reoffend? Usually reoffend? Often reoffend? Your figures put the number at about one out of 8. I'll accept that as a working number. Seven out of eight do not re-offend.

At the risk of making this overly-complicated, the phenomenon you describe would also inflate the number of reoffenders for non-sexual crimes, too, which would still leave sexual crimes with one of the lowest recidivism rates of any crime category. Exactly the opposite of what the 17-th century scarlet-letter people want us to believe.

Your last statistic, by the way, as Im sure you don't want to know, refers to re-arrests for ALL types of crimes. People released after conviction for sex crimes continue to offend, but rarely are their re-offenses of a sexual nature. In fact, a majority of them who are rearrested are simply parole violation. That was also covered in the BJS report that I referenced, but it is irrelevant to this discussion.

Last edited by jtur88; 05-15-2009 at 11:21 PM..
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Old 05-16-2009, 06:19 AM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 4,940,037 times
Reputation: 3848
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
In the 18th Century , the fictional Hester Prynne was branded for Adultery. In modern Arabia, thieves are branded by the amputation of a hand. Defend and justify those practices, or stop advocating them.
To the extent that this post is addressed to me (given that it quotes my comment in the subsequent paragraph), kindly cite the post in which you claim I advocate branding people or amputating their hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
If the purpose is to "prevent their reintegration into society", why let them out of prison? What is the social utility of having people outside prisons who are denied integration into society? Why not just brand murderers and let them go? Terrorists? Assassins? Why have prisons? To retain the walls behind which unconstitutional cruel and unusual punishment can prevail unseen and unreported?
This is a nonsensical interpretation of my comment about "preventing reintegration into society". I was explaining the motive behind certain people calling for branding sex offenders, not arguing they should be prevented from reintegrating into society.
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Old 05-16-2009, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,574,557 times
Reputation: 35869
That was my first post in this thread. I opened with a summary reply to the OP's question. Only in the third paragraph did I address your remarks, I apologize if you felt put upon. My argument with you was not on the issue of branding, but on the issue of turnung loose a bunch of hapless people in order to force them to be members of an untouchable caste among the general society.

If your post did not advocate what I objected to, then why did you think I objected to what you advocated?
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