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Old 05-17-2009, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JACK SAWYER View Post
It also tells you of sins in the book you are talking about! so dont forget that!

The Bible especially the Old Testiment tells of sin and its consequences. If you limit your belief set to that part of the Bible you are not a really Christian but a follower of Judism or Islam since the Torah and the Quran incorporate the Bible's Old testiment. The Talmud is Judism's discourse on how to apply the law to one's life and Mohammed revealed to Moslems what God required of man to keep his law.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
The Bible especially the Old Testiment tells of sin and its consequences. If you limit your belief set to that part of the Bible you are not a really Christian but a follower of Judism or Islam since the Torah and the Quran incorporate the Bible's Old testiment. The Talmud is Judism's discourse on how to apply the law to one's life and Mohammed revealed to Moslems what God required of man to keep his law.
It has always been my view, as well, that the Christians would do well to abolish their absolutism about the OT, regard it as a document of historical curiosity, and oblige the faithful only to live by the moral teachings of Jesus Christ. with theology an option. This would not have stopped an avaricious priesthood from thumping the NT for all the money it's worth, but it would remove many of the patent contradictions. scientific anachronisms and gratuitous superstitions.

Last edited by jtur88; 05-17-2009 at 09:33 AM..
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Old 05-17-2009, 10:38 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,522,229 times
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Originally Posted by mwruckman
Quote:
Is it Christian to keep forgiving the sex offender until he has found grace. I am going to answer yes.
The whole point of forgiving the other is that the offender is actually seeking forgiveness.
If the offender isn't seeking forgiveness the act of forgiving him becomes moot.
Like carrying water to the sea.

Quote:
Finally calling Christ's teaching "sheer stupdity" indicates you take Christ's and his father in vain.
I'm not calling Christ stupid, only those people who believe to follow Christ without actually understanding what he is saying.
Jesusí teachings are to be applied in the real world and not just within the abstract context of a religious debate.
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Old 05-17-2009, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by mwruckmanThe whole point of forgiving the other is that the offender is actually seeking forgiveness.
If the offender isn't seeking forgiveness the act of forgiving him becomes moot.
Like carrying water to the sea.

I'm not calling Christ stupid, only those people who believe to follow Christ without actually understanding what he is saying.
Jesusí teachings are to be applied in the real world and not just within the abstract context of a religious debate.

No, forgiving does not require an offender to seek forgiveness. Forgiveness is more for the transgressed to save them from the soul killing hatred that is a certainty if we can't find it in ourselves to forgive. A perfect demonstration of this occured recently in Pennsylvania when a deranged man slaughtered the children of Nickel Mines an Amish community. The Amish take Christ's teachings seriously. They forgave the killer and were more concerned about his family and their suffering.
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
If we were really a Christian nation do you think cruel and unusual punishment would even be an issue. What would Christ say about torturing, killing or mutalating people for crimes? Christ taught that no sinner was lost to Satan, that he could be saved by his or his Father's grace. All the sinner had to do was believe in him and learn from him how to live his life. If you are really a Christian then even the worst sex offender can be saved by his grace.
Hence part of the problem of our nation when brother can not forgive brother on much lesser things. Myself included, but that is my cross to bare with Christ not yours right? I am a sinner saved by Grace but I am also human I don't think my Christ would want children suffering because of the ignorant acts of some selfish fools either.
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:09 PM
 
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Default right

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Originally Posted by Jaxson View Post
Hence part of the problem of our nation when brother can not forgive brother on much lesser things. Myself included, but that is my cross to bare with Christ not yours right? I am a sinner saved by Grace but I am also human I don't think my Christ would want children suffering because of the ignorant acts of some selfish fools either.
Exact point,you made!well said...
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:16 PM
 
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Also you have to keep in mind the devil takes care of his own!And i think some people are controled by the devil...Because this kind of act is not something god would put in a normal persons heart!Most things i believe should be forgiven if ask...These kind of crimes wreck lives and never leave the victims head!A lot diffrent than stealing or lying in my eyes?
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Old 05-17-2009, 11:53 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,522,229 times
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Originally Posted by mwruckman
Quote:
No, forgiving does not require an offender to seek forgiveness.
Love, even 'unconditional' love, is not a 1 way street.
Furthermore, if humanity doesn't acknowledge that he cannot cure everything, he'll keep making the same mistakes as returning rabid animals back into society.
Simply wanting people to change does not guarantee that they will.

But I guess some Christians will never understand because they're more concerned about their religion than the lives of other people.
It is my opinion that giving a religious leader a say in how a nation's healthcare should be run is a very bad idea.
The pope for example doesn't have the individual's health at heart; he only cares about the idea of the afterlife (read: his religion).
Heís willing to risk the lives of his followers and advises them not to use condoms simply because he believes that this is what his religion requires.
By doing this the pope fails to acknowledge that a religion cannot survive without people.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:31 AM
 
3,277 posts, read 4,494,958 times
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Why not just put them on the rack? I mean, it isn't as if we have a Constitutional amendment specifically barring such things.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt the animalistic blood lust with higher human cognition.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,111 posts, read 4,866,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by mwruckman Love, even 'unconditional' love, is not a 1 way street.
Furthermore, if humanity doesn't acknowledge that he cannot cure everything, he'll keep making the same mistakes as returning rabid animals back into society.
Simply wanting people to change does not guarantee that they will.

But I guess some Christians will never understand because they're more concerned about their religion than the lives of other people.
It is my opinion that giving a religious leader a say in how a nation's healthcare should be run is a very bad idea.
The pope for example doesn't have the individual's health at heart; he only cares about the idea of the afterlife (read: his religion).
Heís willing to risk the lives of his followers and advises them not to use condoms simply because he believes that this is what his religion requires.
By doing this the pope fails to acknowledge that a religion cannot survive without people.

I have been arguing that condeming a certain class of offenders by branding either in a literal or legal sense is wrong. My Christian belief system requires that I make and contimue to make an effort forgive them and help them to seek redemption. You equate these people to rabid animals that shouldn't be released to society. God created all of us and he also creates rabid animals. We do not have the wisdom to understand why he does this, maybe he does this to test the limits of our compasion. Being a Christian takes real effort.

Christian churchs play a big role in medicine, In our suburban county outside of Washington DC. Most of the hositals are run by church organizations. Holy Cross Hospital is run by the Catholic Church and two Hospitals Washinton Adventist and Shady Grove Adventist are run by the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Both the Catholic and Adventist Hospitals limit the practice of medicine to techniques consistent with church teaching.
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