U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-02-2009, 11:41 AM
 
8,807 posts, read 9,628,984 times
Reputation: 6695

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
You are right, you can't compare Jews and African Americans. Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years. And the US military that promptly came to deliver them.....yeah, rejected the pleas of a ship load of Jews begging for refuge (SS St. Louis - Voyage of the Damned) as they sailed along the Florida coast. They were sent back to Germany and were murdered in the ovens.

Jews not acting Jewish?.....what? all the Jews I know are observant Jews.
I don't think Jews blame America for any of those thousands of years of persecution, whereas African Americans have only America to blame, African Americans also don't blame England, Spain, France, Or even Mexico for not rescuing them from the persecution they suffered at the hands of the US government,
Are you saying that all Jews are observant or that you don't believe any one who says they know Jews who are not observant ?

 
Old 09-02-2009, 09:44 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,292 posts, read 10,106,415 times
Reputation: 3530
Quote:
Originally Posted by phreak9 View Post
whats with the over intensity in blacks? a few i work with are always throwing out "im gonna cut you" or "im gonna kill you" or "im gonna punch you". i think whatever is behind this is what leads to many getting shot and beaten (by other blacks). throwing language around like that in an unwarranted fashion will get your ass knocked out.

and every time there is a black get together in milwaukee, whether it be on locust street or at an award ceremony someone gets shot?
Two People Shot During Awards Ceremony In Milwaukee - Milwaukee News Story - WISN Milwaukee (http://www.wisn.com/news/20630760/detail.html - broken link)

i want to continue producing music but in milwaukee if im working with black people im just begging to get shot. im not a racist, i voted for obama, but i am a realist and everything i see happening to blacks is being done by blacks and even shopping at the grocery store near a black part of town or living near it or working in it will get you shot or robbed or both (i have plenty of references). today my black manager (yeah the one that hit her baby daddy with a car) was out cleaning her car while on the clock during our dinner rush!!! she has been spending half of her 8 hour workshifts on the phone!!! a model employee for her fellow black co workers

and i see many many many blacks rolling around in nice cars and clearly having money but i dont think many of them reinvesting in their communities and creating jobs or a better environment for other blacks. condoms and education are free so there are no excuses there. and job creation in black communities isnt going to come from anyone but blacks and arabs running gas stations (in milwaukee here 1 was recently shot and killed in the black part of town) cuz no one else is crazy enough to do it so do it yourself.
That was interesting Have you ever wondered why wealthy whites don't go into white poor areas and support them? I use to think the same way, but the realization came to me, there are some that do support their old neighborhoods once they are able to get out themselves and become sucessful but apparently not many in your area...sorry about that
 
Old 09-02-2009, 09:50 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,292 posts, read 10,106,415 times
Reputation: 3530
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
The Jews have experienced the same atrocities (even worse) and they are a productive people, so I don't think you can use this as an excuse. The American Indians were treated even worse (remember the Trail of Tears) and yet they successfully acclimated themselves into society, albeit forced. People define themselves by driving factors. Some people have the discipline to become leaders of society, others do not. Some people take the easy way out (drugs and crime), others find satisfaction in earning a living. Some people like to find excuses to explain deviant behavior, others see it as an opportunity to change.

Apples and oranges, Jews were never stripped of their culture and identitythe first thing that slavemaster did when they got new slaves was changed their names to the slave owners liking. I don't recall at anytime in history that Jews were forced to change their name,religion and customs. Native Americans were pretty much exterminated or sent to live on reservations but they were able to live the way that they wanted (and they got casinos) if you really can call it living in some cases. Bytheway how many Native Americans do you see regularly in the streets?
 
Old 09-03-2009, 07:53 AM
 
487 posts, read 549,484 times
Reputation: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
Apples and oranges, Jews were never stripped of their culture and identitythe first thing that slavemaster did when they got new slaves was changed their names to the slave owners liking. I don't recall at anytime in history that Jews were forced to change their name,religion and customs. Native Americans were pretty much exterminated or sent to live on reservations but they were able to live the way that they wanted (and they got casinos) if you really can call it living in some cases. Bytheway how many Native Americans do you see regularly in the streets?
Jewish success is explained by their average IQ of 115, thats also why 27% of nobel prize winners are Jewish. Lets stop denying the genetic connection and accept reality.
 
Old 09-03-2009, 08:04 AM
 
8,807 posts, read 9,628,984 times
Reputation: 6695
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusk99 View Post
Jewish success is explained by their average IQ of 115, thats also why 27% of nobel prize winners are Jewish. Lets stop denying the genetic connection and accept reality.
I wonder what the average IQ was before the holocaust ? seems a heavy price to pay that reality
 
Old 09-03-2009, 09:27 AM
 
44,600 posts, read 43,135,258 times
Reputation: 14398
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusk99 View Post
Jewish success is explained by their average IQ of 115, thats also why 27% of nobel prize winners are Jewish. Lets stop denying the genetic connection and accept reality.
If you are trying to say that blacks are inferior, then that is something I am not going to buy, because it's crap. Do you ever consider that lower IQ scores can depend on who gets tested, how the test is given, in an many cases, the physical health of the person. Some people might suffer malnutrition early in life and it can affect their cognitive skills and coordination.
 
Old 09-03-2009, 01:34 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 3,836,442 times
Reputation: 1463
The "problem" blacks and to an extent Hispanics face that Asians do not face is that there are more barriers towards them. Even if "white" America still sees Asians as by and large foreign and ultimately non-American, there is, in my view, a lower level of discrimination and racism towards Asians (I'm referring to East Asians; I know south Asians such as Indians and Pakistanis have also historically thrived here as immigrants, but I'm not talking about them).

What I do wonder, however, is: does "white America's" general tolerance towards Asians RESULT from the ethic and values of Asians or is it because they are perceived not to bring the problems that other minorities are notorious for?

Asian immigrant children or US-born Asians may face ignorant and bigoted comments like "hey ching chong" or even "g**k" or "chi*k" from whites, blacks, Hispanics, etc. But by and large American society is more tolerant of them. How many of us have read about or heard of "white flight" from upper-middle-class suburbs because there were many Chinese or Koreans moving in?

Granted, there are towns in the US like Palisades Park, NJ, where most people one will see on the street are Koreans. But in general, Koreans and Chinese immigrants, as did the Japanese in earlier times, are not known for trashing neighborhoods.

A lot of this has to do with culture, but there are other circumstances.

Blacks are here as the descendants of African slaves. After the Civil War, discrimination continued. It took the 1960s Civil Rights movement to really right this. Blacks still suffer discrimination, although things are overall better (although I also do think they've been given a lot and many of them still complain and play the victim - the fact that Caribbean and African immigrants are doing well has been documented and it's even a source of tension between African-Americans and Caribbean or African immigrants).

An examination of the African-American vs. black immigrant comparison is interesting. Why does the latter succeed whereas the former often does not?

Many of these black immigrants come from the Caribbean, which contains nations colonized by Europe. These immigrants often already speak English and come from societies where the nuclear family base was maintained. The survival of the family as society's most elementary social unit is highly relevant because children and youths learn from what they see around them. And sadly, a lot of young African-Americans have not had solid role models at home. In fact, many have grown up without two parents (often, with an absent father), and oftentimes, even if both parents are at home, not always have both parents finished school.

Personalize this for a moment. A young man growing up in an inner-city area where most of his peers speak broken English, who skip school (and in part because the schools available are infested with drugs, crime, and are underfunded), and whose parents are not ambitious (whether through failures or frustration or whatever reason)... can such a youth be expected to succeed as an adult the way a WASP or Jewish or Korean teenager in Rancho Palos Verdes, CA or Tenafly, NJ may be expected to?

Another argument against African-Americans is that quite often, black immigrants also live in less than posh neighborhoods, but they nonetheless send their children to school; they work; and, they advance. In other words, black immigrants come to the United States, take advantage of what the sytem offers, and gradually advance, whereas African-Americans often do not. Is the system really then at fault? Is being of African DNA the sole reason or the only impediment to advance, a roadblock that those born to white parents or a Chinese immigrant couple or a pair of Jewish teachers in a middle-class neighborhood do not face?

Asians tend to grow up in two-parent families. They are raised to obey their parents, to be respectful of authority, not to cause trouble, to be dutiful and to be diligent. But another factor that may weigh in is that even if they are raised in modest areas, they may have relatives or friends (the parents) who already made it in America. Exposure to such wealth can be a powerful stimulus - "Uncle Louie made it; so can you!" Whereas many times, blacks and Hispanics lack such a potential motivational force. And let's face it, a lot of blacks and hispanics who can barely handle a blue-collar job and are very young and unskilled are having children. These are precisely the worst people one may choose to sire children: not because of questionable moral character, but because they won't be able to provide! And they have not one or two, but often three or more. If one has a low-paying job and struggles to make ends meet, how can one bring a child into this world? Hell, I am solidly middle-class, have a mortgage, a car, and a white-collar job, and I feel fortunate I'm not a father. It'd be a bit dent on my finances.

This is an endless debate, but I would venture to say that some of the reasons Asians fare well are:
- a deep respect for education and learning
- a strong commitment to very hard work and sacrifice
- face (this can be translated as "caring what others think" - "do you want everybody else to know you as the one boy who couldn't get a college degree? Wouldn't that be embarrassing?"
- a traditional respect for authority; this comes from the Confucian influence on East Asian cultures, which have historically been hierarchical
- an emphasis on modesty and silence - letting oneself speak through actions rather than being loudmouthed and rude
- an aversion to "embarrassments" in society such as involvement with crime, drugs, truancy, delinquency, gangs
- a humble appreciation of the sacrifices the elder generation has made in dropping their otherwise relatively comfortable lives in the home country to come to the United States, to work hard for a better future
- strong family values
 
Old 09-03-2009, 02:29 PM
 
487 posts, read 549,484 times
Reputation: 304
If you examine sub-sarahan Africa you will see that they have developed a more r-type society while East Asian countries are K-type societies.

In r-type societies the survival strategy is to have many children but provide less parental care. The offspring are sexually mature at an earlier age thus reproduce young.

In K-type societies they have fewer children but provide much parental care for a significantly longer portion of their offspring's lives, usually with two parents at hand.
 
Old 09-03-2009, 03:05 PM
 
8,807 posts, read 9,628,984 times
Reputation: 6695
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusk99 View Post
If you examine sub-sarahan Africa you will see that they have developed a more r-type society while East Asian countries are K-type societies.

In r-type societies the survival strategy is to have many children but provide less parental care. The offspring are sexually mature at an earlier age thus reproduce young.

In K-type societies they have fewer children but provide much parental care for a significantly longer portion of their offspring's lives, usually with two parents at hand.
I am not sure if any of this has anything to do with American Culture?
 
Old 09-03-2009, 04:38 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 3,836,442 times
Reputation: 1463
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusk99 View Post
If you examine sub-sarahan Africa you will see that they have developed a more r-type society while East Asian countries are K-type societies.

In r-type societies the survival strategy is to have many children but provide less parental care. The offspring are sexually mature at an earlier age thus reproduce young.

In K-type societies they have fewer children but provide much parental care for a significantly longer portion of their offspring's lives, usually with two parents at hand.
I cannot speak for Africa but at least in Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea, families no longer have that many children. A reason older generations of those countries had lots of kids was because of precarious health care and child mortality. The more kids, the greater the chances a family had of having enough "laborers" to help the family subsist.

These countries are all advanced economies now. Sure, you'll find the occasional family with 3 or more kids. But by and large, east Asian nations are aging societies. China didn't get there just yet because it's still maturing and much of its population is blue-collar - not to mention the one-child policy implanted by the Chinese Communist Party.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top