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Old 09-08-2009, 06:28 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,498,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcinsov View Post
without going off into tangents and ranting about nothing, tell me whats wrong with assimilation? and how late is your starbucks open? i'd hate for this coversation to end before you got your double mocha latte chai supremo and cracked wheat crackers with hummus
Every immigrant should assimilate.

People are coming here from Mexico because the United States is a better place to live than Mexico.

I'm not some anti-immigrant redneck. But I am realistic about it. If the United States becomes exactly like all the countries the immigrants are fleeing, what then?

 
Old 09-08-2009, 06:36 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,095,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcinsov View Post
ill ask again- why should they have? ask the mayans how they felt about it when the aztecs dominated their asses or is that okay cause it wasn't Europeans doing it. the fact is natives have been warring for millenia before columbus, and tribes were absorbed or erased all the time.

why the hypocrisy?

Why are you asking me about the Mayans?...lol..Im not in Central America...go ask someone in Central America about the domination of their culture. It would be an extremely fallowed affront for me or you to pretend as though I can speak for their culture.

I am discussing the hypocrisy of United States culture as it regards assimilation and its proclamations of being the alleged purveyors "equality". When in actuality, the "founders" of this nation (you know, the country we actually live in, and the one which has relevance to our actual lives as Americans.) did not observe assimilation themselves.

Last edited by solytaire; 09-08-2009 at 06:50 PM..
 
Old 09-08-2009, 07:02 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 3,841,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcinsov View Post
ill ask again- why should they have? ask the mayans how they felt about it when the aztecs dominated their asses or is that okay cause it wasn't Europeans doing it. the fact is natives have been warring for millenia before columbus, and tribes were absorbed or erased all the time.

why the hypocrisy?
You DO realize that the conquest of the Americas by Europeans led to wholesale genocide, right? With lots of rape, pillage, plunder, etc along the way?
 
Old 09-08-2009, 07:04 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 3,841,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcinsov View Post
as if american professors are paradigms of wisdom?

after all is said and done, he still acted wrongly. his credentials do not justify his actions. I am a white male and even i know better than to resist arrest.
The man in question is an accomplished scholar.

We're not talking about wisdom; we're talking about academic achievements, awards, qualifications. That man has plenty of that.
 
Old 09-08-2009, 07:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Every country in the world has "former native cultures" who were destroyed or marginalized. The United States is NOT alone in that. Not even close.

I'm not saying that it's right, but that IS the way it is.

In a few centuries, if the United States is still around, white people will definitely be the minority. Very likely there will have been some serious reprisals and/or cultural shifts. That's the way things work, the way cultures change, the way nations expire and/or come to be.

I understand that O.R...and I dont think Europeans are anymore evil than the next culture who has sought conquest...My only problem, is that what we SAY we stand for in this nation, and our actual ACTIONS are two different things.

Which is why I have such a problem with this nation's glorification of its compassion. As you and countless others have stated, and I to which I agree, EVERY place/culture on Earth has undergone foreign seizure, maltreatment etc. BUT the difference lies in the fact that THIS country has long touted itself as the purveyors of equality, compassion, diversity and acceptance. When in truth we should behave like every other culture who rose to power through ruthless and deceptive conquest.

Because, as you and a throng of others have stated (and to which I personally agree), our culture IS just like every other culture in that regard..

simply put: we should step down from our pedestal because WE HAVE PROVEN OURSELVES TO SIMPLY BE NO BETTER than any other culture.
 
Old 09-08-2009, 07:11 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 3,841,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Every immigrant should assimilate.

People are coming here from Mexico because the United States is a better place to live than Mexico.

I'm not some anti-immigrant redneck. But I am realistic about it. If the United States becomes exactly like all the countries the immigrants are fleeing, what then?
What you probably fail to understand is that "white America" and by default even black America sees Hispanics, Asians, etc who are immigrants, or even younger ones, who are born here, as foreigners. They may be American in speech, accent, value system, and political allegiance, but because of their skin color they are seen as anything but American.

I've lost count of the number of times I was told by Hispanics and Asians that when they took a road trip to a white area everyone looked at them with less than friendly eyes at a roadside diner or a gas station. And this happened to me as well - and mind you I've never been in the deep South. This happened in the mid-1990s in a small town diner less than 1 hour north of New York City.

My point is - you can easily say immigrants should assimilate; many indeed do and believe the same. It's when they encounter or interact w/ non-immigrants (whites, and blacks too) that they are nonetheless treated as non-assimilated immigrants. You as a white person will probably never understand, though.
 
Old 09-08-2009, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,662,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner View Post
You DO realize that the conquest of the Americas by Europeans led to wholesale genocide, right? With lots of rape, pillage, plunder, etc along the way?
Trust me: the 'Euros' did not have a monopoly on atrocities.

#1: Japan and the Rape of Nanking (Asian against Asian)
#2: Rwanda (Black against Black)
#3: Pol Pot in Cambodia

One catches my drift especially factoring in that all of the above occurred after 1930.

PS: note which nations helped to destroy the institution of slavery 150 years ago------------hint: they were majority White countries.
 
Old 09-08-2009, 08:58 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,498,095 times
Reputation: 3869
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
I understand that O.R...and I dont think Europeans are anymore evil than the next culture who has sought conquest...My only problem, is that what we SAY we stand for in this nation, and our actual ACTIONS are two different things.
Yeah. You know though, that's a human condition problem. None of us are immune.
 
Old 09-08-2009, 09:00 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,498,095 times
Reputation: 3869
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
Because, as you and a throng of others have stated (and to which I personally agree), our culture IS just like every other culture in that regard..

simply put: we should step down from our pedestal because WE HAVE PROVEN OURSELVES TO SIMPLY BE NO BETTER than any other culture.
Not sure I can completely agree with this.

Sure, by all means, we should step down off our pedestal, if indeed we are on one.


On the other hand, the United States spends untold billions of dollars on foreign aid, at least attempting to alleviate suffering in downtrodden places. I don't that there are many, if any, other countries doing that sort of thing.
 
Old 09-08-2009, 09:09 PM
 
1,891 posts, read 3,841,135 times
Reputation: 1463
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Trust me: the 'Euros' did not have a monopoly on atrocities.

#1: Japan and the Rape of Nanking (Asian against Asian)
#2: Rwanda (Black against Black)
#3: Pol Pot in Cambodia

One catches my drift especially factoring in that all of the above occurred after 1930.

PS: note which nations helped to destroy the institution of slavery 150 years ago------------hint: they were majority White countries.
You are going off on a tangent.

I mentioned nothing about a monopoly on atrocities. I wanted to highlight the irrefutable fact that the European conquest of the New World - mainly at the hands of the English and of the Spanish - resulted in the deaths of the ancient natives of the Americas in the dozens of millions.

And if you're going to insist on a racial factor about one race going off at another, you may wish to remember that AFTER 1930, one of the most bloodthirsty land wars took place between two white societies: Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. The eastern front of the European theater of World War II cost at least 30 million lives in soldiers and civilians.
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